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Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1542]

Wed, 08 March 2006 17:25

fudadmin
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Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework?

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1543 is a reply to message #1542]

Wed, 08 March 2006 18:15

mirek
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A good question Wink

Mirek

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1544 is a reply to message #1543]

Wed, 08 March 2006 18:34

fudadmin
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If we use "platform" (like it is now on upp homepage), then logically we get:
"Ultimate++ is a platform ... for cross-platform"...
I feel "framework" would be more appropriate.
"Platform" more relates to "operating systems". Java is a platform because it is "virtual OS". But Ultimate can't run that way.

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1545 is a reply to message #1544]

Wed, 08 March 2006 18:43

fudadmin
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I found this on the internet:

Quote:

Magma avoids the term "platform," Shukla said, because it implies a physical object on which tools sit on top. There is, indeed, room for confusion. If a customizable SoC is a "platform," a workstation is a "platform" and the tools that run on it are a "platform," we're using platforms that run on platforms to design platforms.

- Richard Goering
Design Automation for EE Times

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1546 is a reply to message #1544]

Wed, 08 March 2006 18:45

mirek
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fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 12:34

I agree with "framework". But "development suite" is maybe even more accurate.

Just a sidenote, U++ tends to be "virtual OS", just like Java (the same code runs on Win32 or Linux)

Mirek

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1547 is a reply to message #1546]

Wed, 08 March 2006 18:53

fudadmin
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Which definition is wider? "Framework" or "development suite"?
What are the differences?

[Updated on: Wed, 08 March 2006 18:55]

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1548 is a reply to message #1547]

Wed, 08 March 2006 18:58

mirek
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fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 12:53

Which definition is wider? "Framework" or "development suite"?
What are the differences?

Not sure. I believe that the difference is TheIDE?

BTW, on the www frontpage, C++ platform is now gone in favor of "C++ GUI Toolkit".

Mirek

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1549 is a reply to message #1548]

Wed, 08 March 2006 19:08

fudadmin
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KDevelop is a software development suite.
Qt is a framework.

...?

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1550 is a reply to message #1549]

Wed, 08 March 2006 19:18

mirek
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fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 13:08

KDevelop is a software development suite.
Qt is a framework.

...?

Makes U++ a "software development suite framework"? Wink

That is why I have used "platform" so far.

Mirek

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1551 is a reply to message #1549]

Wed, 08 March 2006 19:19

fudadmin
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.NET is framework. But "Visual Studio" is a development suite.

I see logical that
"TheIDE" + "upp libraries="Ultimate++ framework"
where
"TheIDE" ="development suite"

...?

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1552 is a reply to message #1551]

Wed, 08 March 2006 19:25

mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005

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fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 13:19

.NET is framework. But "Visual Studio" is a development suite.

I see logical that
"TheIDE" + "upp libraries="Ultimate++ framework"
where
"TheIDE" ="development suite"

...?

Yes, but if Qt is framework? Smile

Actually, whatever. I have no problem using "framework" instead of "platform". Maybe it is indeed more correct. I will gradually fix all references...

Mirek

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1553 is a reply to message #1552]

Wed, 08 March 2006 19:48

fudadmin
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luzr wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 18:25

fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 13:19

.NET is framework. But "Visual Studio" is a development suite.

I see logical that
"TheIDE" + "upp libraries="Ultimate++ framework"
where
"TheIDE" ="development suite"

...?

Yes, but if Qt is framework? Smile

Mirek

This is where, I think, I caught them. Smile

?

They should call it "Qt is a GUI toolkit" (like FOX-toolkit) + 3 tools: Qt Designer, Qt Linguist, Qt Assistant.

Comments?

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1554 is a reply to message #1553]

Wed, 08 March 2006 21:16

fudadmin
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more interesting definitions of "application framework":

Quote:

Frameworks are in effect skeletal or generic applications which can be fleshed out and customized into full-fledged software programs.
In recent years frameworks have been successfully implemented for a few specific application domains, most notably user interfaces, data processing, and telecommunications. A successful framework is a breakthrough because it means that developers no longer have to start from scratch: if a framework can successfully generate one user interface, it can generate any user interface.

fromhttp://www.wiley.com/legacy/compbooks/catalog/24875-4.htm

Quote:

Frameworks are generalized and customized application, which can be built upon into a complete and fully functional software programs.
In recent years frameworks have been successfully implemented for some specific application domains, most notably user interfaces and data processing. A successful framework is a breakthrough because it means that developers no longer have to start from scratch. If a framework can successfully generate one user interface, it can generate any user interface.

from http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/Code/2002/JuneAppFrameworkInCS. asp
Smile

Quote:

Application frameworks, which provide a base of common services on which applications are built,
offer the benefits of extensibility, modularity, and reusability of both code and design to your applications.

from:
http://http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=279

Quote:

The application framework represents the semifinished application that architects have developed as a basis for developers to use to construct their business applications.

from: http://www.developer.com/design/article.php/3505651

[Updated on: Wed, 08 March 2006 21:36]

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1566 is a reply to message #1553]

Thu, 09 March 2006 00:19

fudadmin
Messages: 1321
Registered: November 2005
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

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fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 18:48

luzr wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 18:25

fudadmin wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 13:19

.NET is framework. But "Visual Studio" is a development suite.

I see logical that
"TheIDE" + "upp libraries="Ultimate++ framework"
where
"TheIDE" ="development suite"

...?

Yes, but if Qt is framework? Smile

Mirek

This is where, I think, I caught them. Smile

?

They should call it "Qt is a GUI toolkit" (like FOX-toolkit) + 3 tools: Qt Designer, Qt Linguist, Qt Assistant.

Comments?

And jx agree on that! Smile

Quote:

JX is an application framework, while Qt is only a widget set. (This is why KDE had to write their own large library on top of Qt.)

The JX messaging system is pure C++, as opposed to Qt's signals-and-slots system which requires a separate pre-compiler and has several limitations.

from:http://www.newplanetsoftware.com/jx/compare.php

Also, they say:

Quote:

JX is a full-featured C++ application framework and GUI class library for the X Window System.

That means, "C++ application framework" + "GUI class libraries" = "JX".
and "JX"="C++ application framework".

I can't catch the logic what is framework... Shocked

[Updated on: Thu, 09 March 2006 01:24]

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1569 is a reply to message #1566]

Thu, 09 March 2006 01:33

fudadmin
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Registered: November 2005
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

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Should Ultimate++ be listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework?

or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_framework

or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework

[Updated on: Thu, 09 March 2006 01:37]

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1570 is a reply to message #1569]

Thu, 09 March 2006 02:32

fudadmin
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Registered: November 2005
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

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this is how Mozilla understand framework:
http://www.mozilla.org/why/framework.html

Mozilla=Framework+Tools+Community+etc.

But "Framework"= "XUL (UI toolkit)"+ "Other libraries"

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1592 is a reply to message #1570]

Thu, 09 March 2006 11:23

riri
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Location: France

Promising Member

What a metaphysic question Smile

Ihmo,
Ultimate++ is itself is a C++ Framework, a cross-platform C++ Framework. It's the generic definition.
Now, it's real that Ultimate++ provides cross-platform GUI Toolkit, but only as part of it (the Core pakcage has nothing to do with UI).
theIde is a tool, an application developped with upp, and can be considered as a development suite. As far as I know, theIde isn't part of the upp framework, but is part of the Upp project Wink

.

So for me, the good denomination for Ultimate++ as a toolkit is a cross-platform C++ application framework with integrated cross-platform GUI.

TheIde is the Ultimate++ framework development tool.

The Ultimate++ project provides the Ultimate++ framework and theIde development suite.

My 2 cents
Riri

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Re: Ultimate++: is it a platform or framework? [message #1595 is a reply to message #1592]

Thu, 09 March 2006 14:57

mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005

Ultimate Member

riri wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 05:23

What a metaphysic question Smile

theIde is a tool, an application developped with upp, and can be considered as a development suite. As far as I know, theIde isn't part of the upp framework, but is part of the Upp project Wink

Note also that TheIDE is just another uppsrc package, and even can be used as library... Wink

Mirek

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