Home » Community » PR, media coverage, articles and documentation » PR!
| PR! [message #20472] |
Fri, 20 March 2009 10:29  |
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mirek
Messages: 14290
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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Hi everybody,
with nightly builds and tremendous improvements in U++, I think it is time to reconsider little PR. Recently, we have been mostly silent for almost 1 year, not annoucements or anything anywhere, no releases.
I guess it was a good time for "silent work", but now when we are approaching a shiny new U++, maybe we could try to be a very little bit more noisy.
For starters, I think there should be someone that would care about freshmeat and usenet annoucments.
Basically, I think that "weekly review" of svn changes between nightly-builds would be ok.
I mean, take this log:
http://code.google.com/p/upp-mirror/source/list
between last annouced revision and last release, adapt (remove uninteresting elements, edit those interesting), submit to freshmeat and to some relevant usenet conferences. (Maybe, USENET could be less frequent to avoid annoying people).
Of course, the first annoucement will have to be a bit "bigger" 
This is simple but quite boring work, but it would make BIG difference.
Regarding PR, I am also considering:
- Deprecating the project name "Ultimate++" and using U++ only in the future. I am afraid that Ultimate++ does not sound seriously enough for many.
- Redesigning U++ logo (it is pretty old now)
- Redesigning U++ frontpage. I think that the general style of website is quite OK, but maybe we should put info there.
Any other suggestions are welcome. Just please, do not expect me to do everything
Mirek
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| Re: PR! [message #20510 is a reply to message #20494] |
Sat, 21 March 2009 18:50  |
Novo
Messages: 1431
Registered: December 2006
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Ultimate Contributor |
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I think before drawing attention to U++ we should get prepared to explain that U++ is not just a cool C++ library and an extremely useful developer's tool, but also a system, which is completely different from everything else that C++ developers got used to use.
Otherwise we will have to answer the same questions over and over again.
It took me a lot of time to realize how huge is the difference between U++ and everything else.
Regards,
Novo
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| Re: PR! [message #20518 is a reply to message #20510] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 04:29 |
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| Novo wrote on Sat, 21 March 2009 20:50 |
I think before drawing attention to U++ we should get prepared to explain that U++ is not just a cool C++ library and an extremely useful developer's tool, but also a system, which is completely different from everything else that C++ developers got used to use.
Otherwise we will have to answer the same questions over and over again.
It took me a lot of time to realize how huge is the difference between U++ and everything else.
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Just for someone, it is important that while the novelty product, Ultimatepp is 100% C++ language with strict syntax.
For me, as I understand it, it was a very important factor.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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| Re: PR! [message #20519 is a reply to message #20517] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 04:33 |
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| Mindtraveller wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 05:11 |
| luzr wrote on Fri, 20 March 2009 12:29 |
- Redesigning U++ logo (it is pretty old now)
...
Just please, do not expect me to do everything
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OK, pack of rough sketches. No beauty, just to visualize the idea... May be it`ll lead someone to better realization.
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There is no need to hurry up with the change of the logo. The new logo does not bear a message that this is a continuity with the C++ (unlike the old).
Also, when I first installed the product, I have long sought to know what the name of the menu? Correct! - Ultimate++! But it was not there! The menu was another unknown word - TheIDE! I think this a big mistake. Better would be to write the menu - Ultimate++, or perhaps - Ultimate++ TheIDE.
Even in the letters to our visitors, the signatures must be kept - Ultimate++ team. Everywhere!
And I think the loss is impermissible, then that site does not send notifications of new messages in subscribed threads in the mail. People read the forum and went - and then a letter - "means Ultimate - it works!". It is very important!
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
[Updated on: Sun, 22 March 2009 05:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PR! [message #20520 is a reply to message #20519] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 04:43 |
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When a promotion commercial project - creating a website that collect the money (actually preferred product for the money) and a few sites that do not sell, but simply organize "fish place" for the target audience (the place where people congregate target audience) and which for that very target audience periodically quietly throw the message on the product sold.
Of course there is not expected to take the money, but can be used similar PR technology.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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| Re: PR! [message #20521 is a reply to message #20472] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 05:07 |
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| luzr wrote on Fri, 20 March 2009 12:29 |
Regarding PR, I am also considering:
- Deprecating the project name "Ultimate++" and using U++ only in the future. I am afraid that Ultimate++ does not sound seriously enough for many.
- Redesigning U++ logo (it is pretty old now)
- Redesigning U++ frontpage. I think that the general style of website is quite OK, but maybe we should put info there.
Any other suggestions are welcome. Just please, do not expect me to do everything
Mirek
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Oh NO!
Ultimate++ - sounds (unlike U++). You can say it. This is yet another media vehicle.
I think you need to add more sections of the type of "Getting Started" (I do not know at this site or another).
And need more sections, which describe the benefits to me, rolling from another tool, which helps to quickly achieve the goal to Ultimate++.
Again, comparing the PR technology with the commercial product - creates a separate series of documentation - Documentation for the promotion of vendors, promotion documentation for journalists, while not explicitly called for one of those articles, but each category of readers usually know exactly its documentation.
And for beginners, and the above categories of readers are not important nuances of change in the SVN code (as it may seem sad).
For them, the goods - the very innovative approach to C++, and technology development programs in general. So it is necessary to give them their goods (I repeat - perhaps not on this site, by the way feel like to have as a link to all the project sites).
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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| Re: PR! [message #20522 is a reply to message #20521] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 05:45 |
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We can give an example of a product Mozilla.
There are sites:
- www.mozilla.com
- www.mozilla.org
- www.mozilla-europe.com
- help.mozilla.org
- develop.mozilla.org
............
and so on..
I'm not sure what to exactly the same sites as in Mozilla. But the idea - is clear.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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| Re: PR! [message #20529 is a reply to message #20528] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 10:37 |
Mindtraveller
Messages: 917
Registered: August 2007
Location: Russia, Moscow rgn.
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Experienced Contributor |
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| luzr wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 12:26 |
I think we should basically keep that little graphics: ...
but change the text. Of course, some minor update of graphics would be nice. But over, I think the shape is quite characteristic.
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I always wondered what does colour table plus two rulers stand for in U++ logo?
[Updated on: Sun, 22 March 2009 10:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PR! [message #20535 is a reply to message #20528] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 13:38 |
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This logo is not the logo. This is the first picture for the cover of the booklet. Or for flashwindow. The logo should be more strict. The logo must not lose the idea and when printing on grayscale printer, or even on 2-color printer.
Perhaps for the site to use the graphic idea of the image would be quite good.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
[Updated on: Sun, 22 March 2009 13:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PR! [message #20536 is a reply to message #20530] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 13:50 |
andrei_natanael
Messages: 262
Registered: January 2009
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Experienced Member |
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| luzr wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 12:02 |
Or this:
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As Mirek suggested, a horseshoe magnet with two ++ at heads, something like this image.(with ++). 
The design of site is too old. We need something more modern.
Like KDE, QTSoftware, Gnome, CodeBlocks...
Also first page should contain a short description of project and news updated daily or weekly about the project, new releases, community announcements and so on. The content of site should me more organized (now it is split into 11 sections which contain more sub-sections). A new forum would be nice, because this one have some problems, like showing me online long after i've logout, sometimes some messages are not shown, number of most users online in one day is almost double of current registered users. So we should extract information from it which is of actuality and use a new forum. In that way we know also the exact number of U++ users 
I'm thinking also at a bug reporting tool and let the forum only for trouble that users have.
After these modifications I think U++ will become a more serious project.
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| Re: PR! [message #20539 is a reply to message #20536] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 15:41 |
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| andrei_natanael wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 15:50 |
As Mirek suggested, a horseshoe magnet with two ++ at heads, something like this image.(with ++).
The design of site is too old. We need something more modern.
Like KDE, QTSoftware, Gnome, CodeBlocks...
Also first page should contain a short description of project and news updated daily or weekly about the project, new releases, community announcements and so on. The content of site should me more organized (now it is split into 11 sections which contain more sub-sections). A new forum would be nice, because this one have some problems, like showing me online long after i've logout, sometimes some messages are not shown, number of most users online in one day is almost double of current registered users. So we should extract information from it which is of actuality and use a new forum. In that way we know also the exact number of U++ users
I'm thinking also at a bug reporting tool and let the forum only for trouble that users have.
After these modifications I think U++ will become a more serious project.
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No, do not need such revolutionary changes. Forum - excellent. A separate forum for bugs - unnecessary. Moreover, it is not quite in the style of community Ultimate. And in the style of Ultimate - no bugs and bug-reports, and if necessary future - then do it himself.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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 Re: PR! [message #20542 is a reply to message #20536] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 20:51 |
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| andrei_natanael wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 15:50 |
Also first page should contain a short description of project and news updated daily or weekly about the project, new releases, community announcements and so on. The content of site should me more organized
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Completely agree. I would have proposed to expand the news RSS feed. And make a special section of news, news of which could be placed at other news sites (to name a section of press releases).
And more. Versions are available too rare. If you look at the process of release from the company Microsoft - then these guys are not seriously disturbed by the fact that after release had to release service pack. I think this is a good practice. It is too rarely go steady - still are working on SVN version - hence the meaning of a stable version - remains a bit.
If you do not like the name - the stable version, then let him be a beta version. In any case, release of a new beta version can be reflected in the press release or news, and provide all the commentary that in this case, the beta version is almost a working version. Through RSS feeds it will be regularly updated on news and Open Source sites. Strongly increasing popularity.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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| Re: PR! [message #20543 is a reply to message #20541] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 20:52 |
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mirek
Messages: 14290
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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| andrei_natanael wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 15:10 |
| sergeynikitin wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 16:41 |
No, do not need such revolutionary changes. Forum - excellent. A separate forum for bugs - unnecessary. Moreover, it is not quite in the style of community Ultimate. And in the style of Ultimate - no bugs and bug-reports, and if necessary future - then do it himself.
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You don't understand me in some ways... I don't want a separate forum for bug reports what I want is something like Track, useful when reporting bugs and also useful for feature request. In that way the majority of users like to interact with project developers and that's the fact why U++ in not mainstream (as some people reminded in past posts) and wide used. Even if you do a great software if you don't make it accessible to majority, it's almost nothing because just some select clients will benefit from it.
About new forum... I think current forum is old. It was released in 19 September 2006. So 3 years is enough for it. How you reflect the "innovations" which U++ and how you demonstrate it when U++ have an old forum and informations from site are mostly outdated.
I don't want to create a list with U++ shortcomings here (maybe i will start one  ) but I don't see how we have an increasing community if informations we provide are outdated and old-class infos and we don't get in step with changes.
Just my 0.99$
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Well, the problem about forum is about upgrade while retaining the current data...
I am afraid for good or bad, we are stuck with fud for this reason. We might check a newer version, but that is about all we can do...
Mirek
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| Re: PR! [message #20546 is a reply to message #20543] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 20:58 |
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| luzr wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 22:52 |
I am afraid for good or bad, we are stuck with fud for this reason. We might check a newer version, but that is about all we can do...
Mirek
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Yes, this forum - this invaluable wealth of knowledge. It must be preserved. Possibly as a reorganization of the data. Maybe try to manually modify the forum PHP motor.
Perhaps you need to put the source code forum to network.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
[Updated on: Sun, 22 March 2009 21:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PR! [message #20547 is a reply to message #20546] |
Sun, 22 March 2009 22:21 |
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Concept of FUD forum is very interesting and very flexible! In administration menu you can build new theme and language pack, edit or add new functionality based on template construction!
The best way about forum I thing we need to add new sections... or group messages in "wish list" with states and priority, "bug report" and other.
News lent with new changes on the first page.
About U++ we need to improve the documentation, maintain new practice and modern examples!
On the first page I thing we need to write first 10 proposes most important why U++ is good!
The most important, we need to add mechanisms to import projects from other IDEs (Visual Studio, Code::Block, KDevelope and other).
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| Re: PR! [message #20550 is a reply to message #20549] |
Mon, 23 March 2009 01:05 |
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People! do not need more to develop a magnetic subject.
A magnet does not pass any commonality with U++ or with C++.
And the symbol ++ is not obvious.
Another point. Thick enough to cross - is associated with the Swiss cross and not with the plus sign.
Lines of crosses to be thinner.
I think 2 plus sign should be close (together) - this is what made sense in the designation of the language C++.
SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
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| Re: PR! [message #20552 is a reply to message #20550] |
Mon, 23 March 2009 10:21 |
cbpporter
Messages: 1428
Registered: September 2007
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Ultimate Contributor |
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I think we should build on what we have.
1. Logo should remain the same. It's not like we are changing anything in the framework, we are just trying to promote it. But the style of the logo is old. Modern logo's have gradients and realistic shading. Check out what Oxygen/KDE did with their icons, or how Vista updated the icon for Notepad from the Windows 95 look.
I think I saw some updated icons in an old thread somewhere on the forum, but I can't find it again.
Touching up the logo should be no big deal. If one of us can't do it, a struggling young artist will do a great job for a small amount of money.
2. The forum should stay. It is both an adequate platform of communication and an archive of a lot of valuable information. Going through it and archiving some old threads would be in order, but that is a monumental task and I don't think anybody has the resources or patience to do it.
3. We do need some great introductory articles which must address the most important aspects that differentiate U++ from other frameworks, like:
- why do we re implement STL? Couldn't we have developed a compromise solution, using STL as much as possible and adding just a few containers, like Movable enabled ones? Couldn't we have used STL naming conventions and iterators? I know STL containers don't have a virtual destructor, but that doesn't mean you can't inherit and modify behavior. Sure, there are some restrictions, but we could have retrofitted some standard containers with some useful methods.
- why do we use default pick semantics? Won't it cause a lot of problems? Big learning curve and hidden bugs? Design pattern books say that this is a bad practice. And it is in a world of default copy construction, so we need to highlight that the framework is more or less capable of handling pick semantics without issues because if was designed that way. This issue is going to be hard to "market". I've been using U++ for quite some time now, and while I think that copy constructing should not be enforced on a STL level, we should have left = as default copy construct and only use pick with and explicit picking method/operator.
- why don't we have a couple of libs and some .h. Everybody does that. "Source based distribution? Why? I don't want to recompile everything. What is this, the kernel? You're just lazy!". We need to explain the advantages of U++ modularity. Also BLITZ must be handled with care. It is not well received in a business environment and managers tend to avoid it.
- why do we allocate everything on the stack? This makes a lot of common pattern harder to use. U++ doesn't play nice with things like abstract factories if we follow our style, and if we adopt their style, we loose a lot of U++'s advantages and simplicity.
- leaving aside NTL, why do we implement a new set of widgets? We could have used one of the existing toolkits and expand upon it. Even better question: leaving aside details and language differences, what can U++ widgets do that Gtk ones can't? Gtk is used everywhere, and GtkMM should be a better supported equivalent of U++, right? Such questions will arise, and different environments will have different levels of resistance. For Windows development, most people I know that do C++ would ask: "Another set of widgets? What version of MFC is it built upon? I can't be better than ToolKit Pro."
And the list could go on and on. What I'm trying to say is that U++ is different, and we need to show this and also why it is good thing. If we create false expectations, we won't get anything more that a temporary interest.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 March 2009 10:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PR! [message #20560 is a reply to message #20557] |
Mon, 23 March 2009 11:09 |
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Every creator and developer of his part of u++ library need write documentation, make simple examples to demonstrate facility for new user and himself when he forgets. In this way, the collected information can grouping and set a style!
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