Home » Developing U++ » Mac OS » Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18175 is a reply to message #18173] |
Sun, 14 September 2008 17:37   |
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mirek
Messages: 14290
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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| captainc wrote on Sun, 14 September 2008 09:08 |
| luzr wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 11:35 |
I have an idea how to speed-up the porting (MacOS X now, be it is general).
The most time consuming part of problem is to find out all the information about implementing required things on target platform, something that developer that knows the platform would find primitive. OTOH, target platform guru's are unlikely to know about U++ implementation details.
So my idea is to create "reference application" that will contain all the function for minimal (and perhaps later, advanced) target platform support.
Target platform guru will reimplement this application (using the most straighforward way) and submit the code, which will serve as great boost to development speed (sort of U++ oriented knowledge base).
Thoughts?
Mirek
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I think this was a great idea. Was there any progress with it? What are we doing about Mac support? I think supporting Mac is necessary to get Mac developers to use and work on U++.
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Unfortunately, I am afraid, for the time being, Mac stalled. I think Carbon EOL was the final hit...
Mirek
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18198 is a reply to message #18197] |
Tue, 16 September 2008 10:48 |
bytefield
Messages: 210
Registered: December 2007
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Experienced Member |
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| luzr wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 11:33 |
Mac HW is the least problem here...
Mirek
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Then the lack of MacOS programmers? Seems no one is interested to port Upp to MacOSX... is that because of Objective-C or the upp core developers don't use Mac at all. I've never used a Mac and i don't know when i will use one, because i'm felling good using x86 platform with Linux and Windows. I know that MacOS is the second programs market after Windows(here in Europe, i don't know in USA) but i don't bother to make programs for it because MacOS have just a small amount of market.
So the question is, should we have interest in MacOS platform? Maybe others outside of Europe and better informed can give some hints.
cdabbd745f1234c2751ee1f932d1dd75
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18200 is a reply to message #18198] |
Tue, 16 September 2008 10:57 |
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mirek
Messages: 14290
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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| bytefield wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 04:48 |
| luzr wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 11:33 |
Mac HW is the least problem here...
Mirek
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Then the lack of MacOS programmers?
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IMO, lack of Core U++ developers as well....
The problem is that this requires both deep MacOSX knowledge AND deep U++ knowledge...
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Seems no one is interested to port Upp to MacOSX... is that because of Objective-C or the upp core developers don't use Mac at all.
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IMO, both...
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I know that MacOS is the second programs market after Windows(here in Europe, i don't know in USA)
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In my country, there is IMO much more Linux related programming *jobs* than MacOS programming jobs. Basically, any ISP needs Linux programmers. Who needs OSX coders?
MacOSX is used by graphics, but they do not need any software developemnt...
AFAIK, in USA situation mich be much different, Apple has much deeper market penetration.
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So the question is, should we have interest in MacOS platform?
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Definitely. But other things have priority now....
Mirek
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18201 is a reply to message #18198] |
Tue, 16 September 2008 11:06 |
cbpporter
Messages: 1428
Registered: September 2007
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Ultimate Contributor |
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| bytefield wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 11:48 |
Then the lack of MacOS programmers? Seems no one is interested to port Upp to MacOSX... is that because of Objective-C or the upp core developers don't use Mac at all. I've never used a Mac and i don't know when i will use one, because i'm felling good using x86 platform with Linux and Windows. I know that MacOS is the second programs market after Windows(here in Europe, i don't know in USA) but i don't bother to make programs for it because MacOS have just a small amount of market.
So the question is, should we have interest in MacOS platform? Maybe others outside of Europe and better informed can give some hints.
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I think that it is about the lack of MacOS developers. Objective-C si not that hard, but still, you can't just read a little about it and expect to write anything meaningful. You need some experience, and I think that a lot of people would rather avoid having to learn a new and relatively useless (except for Mac) programing language.
And even if you know ObjectiveC, it will take some time before you get a basic window and message system running, and you also must be able to integrate it into CtrlCore. That's why it would be the best if someone who knows Cocoa and someone familiar with CtrlLib implementation work together. So basically one does a straightforward Cocoa minimal application, like you would find in a tutorial, and the other then tries to adapt if for CtrlLib.
Too bad that Carbon is outdated  .
And of course these people need Macs. Anybody successfully emulated a Mac?
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18203 is a reply to message #18200] |
Tue, 16 September 2008 11:44 |
bytefield
Messages: 210
Registered: December 2007
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Experienced Member |
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| luzr wrote |
In my country, there is IMO much more Linux related programming *jobs* than MacOS programming jobs. Basically, any ISP needs Linux programmers. Who needs OSX coders?
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That's happen also in my country and I guess all around the world, IMO LAMP(Linux+Apache+MySQL+Php) is one of the best solutions for server side applications, because it's cheap and opened.
When i was talking about the MacOS as a second market after Windows i was thinking that Linux market side want mostly open-source programs and just the best oss get sales in Linux market(maybe not source or program sales but support sales). BTW, have someone from here made a commercial application for Linux and/or open-source/closed-source in the same time?
cdabbd745f1234c2751ee1f932d1dd75
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18225 is a reply to message #18209] |
Thu, 18 September 2008 02:18 |
captainc
Messages: 278
Registered: December 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Experienced Member |
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New product that I saw from a Digg article:
http://www.efixusa.net/product_info.php?products_id=28
Its a usb drive that allows you to install MAC OS on a pc
From their site:
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Run Unmodified Mac OS X on a PC:
Boost your creativity, your dreams and daily tasks in a fully new dimension with Mac OS X on PC. Start to experience what Mac OS X users always enjoyed, stability of Mac OS X system, unique security protection, no viruses, and the beauty of the OS all on your standard PC.
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Note sure how it works yet...
Update: Looks like it is limited to the hardware it can run on.
[Updated on: Thu, 18 September 2008 02:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23618 is a reply to message #18238] |
Thu, 05 November 2009 15:53 |
jeremy_c
Messages: 175
Registered: August 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
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Experienced Member |
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No more word on OS X support I guess? To me, that is the one thing holding me back going full force with U++. I would like to deploy on Windows, Linux and OS X. I am betting it's the case with many other developers as well. Here in the USA, OS X is here to stay and we really must think about deployment on it :-/
Jeremy
[Updated on: Thu, 05 November 2009 15:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23631 is a reply to message #23628] |
Sat, 07 November 2009 21:11 |
andrei_natanael
Messages: 262
Registered: January 2009
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Experienced Member |
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| koldo wrote on Sat, 07 November 2009 14:44 |
Hello all
I do not know about Mac programming, but this sound strange to me:
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So I was also thinking to do some Mac Programming. But as I realized that the native language is there Objective-C. I was wondering how to port then something in U++ ?
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So just searching a little bit I have found that in Mac it is used Xcode Tools (http://developer.apple.com/tools/), previously named Apple DevTools, including Mac versions of gcc, gdb and make, here http://developer.apple.com/tools/gcc_overview.html
Best regards
Koldo
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Hi Koldo, i'm not a Mac programmer but recently i've looked over programming topics for mac on internet (especially apple site). There was possible to write GUI in C/C++ for MacOS using Carbon library but Apple dropped it and new library Cocoa is only Objective-C. It may sound strange but Objective-C is really used to do programs for macs 
I know you can mix C/C++ with Objective-C/C++ and up to some point Objective-C is pure C, then the differences comes. We have to use Objective-C mixed with C/C++ to create an interface which could get used by upp CtrlCore. Btw, we may get some inspiration by looking at Qt code  .
This year(2009-2010) i will be a graduated student, Bachelor of Mathematics-Computer Science (i hope i wrote this correct) and my thesis is about cross-platform GUI and i'm writing a Chameleon like library for Windows, Linux(KDE or Gnome or both) so if i'm not failing at doing that than i will try to port it to macos too after exams and if it's good enough maybe upp will adopt it
P.S.: your last link should point to http://developer.apple.com/tools/gcc_overview.html (without dot at the end of the link)
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #28285 is a reply to message #23793] |
Thu, 26 August 2010 11:03 |
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kohait00
Messages: 939
Registered: July 2009
Location: Germany
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Experienced Contributor |
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there is a core layer, called 'quartz' which could be used, without the need to have objective c++, trying to find out what we need for..but we wouldnt need cocoa..
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Introduction
Quartz 2D is an advanced, two-dimensional drawing engine available for iOS application development and to all Mac OS X application environments outside of the kernel. Quartz 2D provides low-level, lightweight 2D rendering with unmatched output fidelity regardless of display or printing device. Quartz 2D is resolution- and device-independent; you don’t need to think about the final destination when you use the Quartz 2D application programming interface (API) for drawing.
The Quartz 2D API is easy to use and provides access to powerful features such as transparency layers, path-based drawing, offscreen rendering, advanced color management, anti-aliased rendering, and PDF document creation, display, and parsing.
The Quartz 2D API is part of the Core Graphics framework, so you may see Quartz referred to as Core Graphics or, simply, CG.
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http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Graphic sImaging/Conceptual/drawingwithquartz2d/Introduction/Introdu ction.html
and: it's not to be mixed with QuickDraw API, which *is* deprecated, but quartz is a replacement for it.. cocoa partly uses it as far as i know, but mainly it uses opengl directly..
i have a test program here drawing stuff on screen with quartz, my chief bought a mac shortly, we are experimenting and really considering porting.
anyone with infos on it please post..
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #28288 is a reply to message #28287] |
Thu, 26 August 2010 11:48 |
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kohait00
Messages: 939
Registered: July 2009
Location: Germany
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Experienced Contributor |
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and some more
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The Quartz 2D C API
Quartz 2D is one part of a larger graphics environment known as Core Graphics. In addition to Quartz 2D, Core Graphics interacts with the window system and hardware to integrate graphics created by the many different graphics libraries on the system. It is responsible for managing the display environment and working with the window server and Quartz compositor to create the image presented on the screens. While Core Graphics encompasses more than Quartz 2D, it's not unusual for people to use the two terms interchangeably when discussing Quartz 2D in context.
The Core Graphics API is an object oriented API. To allow developers to use that API in as many environments as possible, however, the system implements it as a set of C routines. The API itself draws upon the object-oriented concepts of encapsulation, inheritance, and polymorphism. Because C doesn't directly support these concepts, Core Graphics uses opaque data types, in the place of classes, to support encapsulation and inheritance. To provide polymorphism, Core Graphics applies a naming convention to its routines.
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http://flylib.com/books.php?ln=en&n=3&p=310&c=9& amp;p1=1&c1=1&c2=100&view=1
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #33069 is a reply to message #33068] |
Tue, 05 July 2011 22:17 |
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kohait00
Messages: 939
Registered: July 2009
Location: Germany
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Experienced Contributor |
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Who,s willing to start the experiment? Imagine the kind of boost for ultimate beeing able to run natively on win32/posix/macos/sdl/framebuffer...
This can be a key feature especially for embedded systems, it,s quite hard to start with qt, fltk is outdated and pretty ugly, picogui has ceased devolpment, xserver or fbcon are complicated to implement in ES, and here comes upp, one tool for all the needs..even adaptable to a custom backend..
EDIT: this one is a central source..
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Graphi csImaging/Conceptual/drawingwithquartz2d/Introduction/Introd uction.html
[Updated on: Wed, 06 July 2011 11:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #33140 is a reply to message #33086] |
Mon, 11 July 2011 06:52 |
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daveremba
Messages: 32
Registered: June 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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Hi, I'm new to UPP, so I'll pose some
basic questions for discussion below.
I have some time and knowledge of the MacOS,
C++, etc. and would consider helping with
a more complete port of UPP to Mac.
It would help to get some direction/discussion
from the UPP community.
Also, are there any other developers on
MacOSX who would work on this??
What is the interest level in a MacOS port
of UPP?
I got a port working of TheIDE on MacOSX,
and the example apps run, but under an X11
emulator, and do not have the Apple look and feel.
This of course is expected.
There is some remaining work to fix a couple of
problems with buttons and menus. But in any
case this is a quick and crude port, and its main
value is that TheIDE itself does run and could
be used as an alternative to Xcode.
Xcode is the Apple equivalent of MS Visual Studio,
or KDevelop, etc. It generates code for MacOS,
iPhone, and iPad. It has a simulator for
the mobile devices (like Android).
One works mainly in Objective-C.
Xcode generates a .nib file, similar to the UPP
.layfile, form another tool called "Interface
Builder".
Attached are snapshots of the "widgets" available
in Xcode IB for iPhone and MacOSX.
Some questions to consider:
What kind of port would be reasonable and useful
to the UPP community?
Probably reinventing
the entire Apple tool chain is not desirable.
is there a 1:1 correspondence of widgets to UPP?
(probably not)
The UPP community would want an app that runs
on Linux and Windows to look similar, but also
conform to Apple look and feel, right?
(without much or any re-coding effort, like
Qt etc, but a better result than Qt)
There are several technical paths to chose from;
and picking the best one depends on what
the community expects from a porting effort
of UPP to Mac.
So a useful first step, I would ask readers to please
look at the attached widgets, and provide some
comments as to which ought to be connected to UPP,
and which are "out of scope" (at least for a first
port). (widgets are in messages that follow)
There is at least a basic correspondence of
menus, buttons, tabs, etc. There are quite a
few button styles on MacOS however.
You can also
see some specialized containers that Apple provides
for OpenGL, Quicktime, PDF, and choosers for
time, date, options, etc. (particularly for
iPhone they look quite different from UPP).
I saw that another developer, Aris (fudadmin), did a port
of the vector and image drawing tools in UPP.
I downloaded that Xcode project also.
off-topic:
A universal mobile UI framework that claims 1 million
developers for mobile devices and that I'm working
with is Sencha, which runs in Javascript.
The libarary is called ExtJS. Here is the
link:
http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/
Sencha currently lacks a good data-object
connection to server (Direct-EXT is incomplete).
I recommend UPP developers take a look at it,
how might it relate to the Rainbow (or future UPP)
projects?
For another project, I am considering using UPP for the
server backend (since it is so fast compared to PHP, and
a much better language (C++ & good design)
compared to PHP). I'd need JSON/REST in UPP
to get my project working however.
Any comments on this would be appreciated
(maybe in another thread).
Thanks,
Dave
Xcode Interface builder widgets (Cocoa library)
are attached as 4 replies to this post.
[Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2011 07:37] Report message to a moderator |
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