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Home » U++ Library support » U++ Widgets - General questions or Mixed problems » what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++?
what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #328] Thu, 08 December 2005 12:06 Go to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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what is the situation with MDI in U++?

[Updated on: Fri, 28 April 2006 12:39]

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2859 is a reply to message #328] Fri, 28 April 2006 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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or how to make something like this:
http://doc.trolltech.com/4.1/qdockwidget.html#details
or MFC CDocument?
As I understand, some docking features would be useful for toolbars anyway?

[Updated on: Fri, 28 April 2006 12:39]

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2860 is a reply to message #328] Fri, 28 April 2006 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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fudadmin wrote on Thu, 08 December 2005 06:06

what is the situation with MDI in U++?


MDI in classical form will unlikely be supported (last time I have seen it was in win nt 3.5 file explorer anyway).

Floating toolbars are ToDo.

Mirek

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2861 is a reply to message #2860] Fri, 28 April 2006 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Have you seen MS Access tree view?
Edit: (Relationship)
It exists even 2003 version. Would you suggest MS to throw it away?

[Updated on: Fri, 28 April 2006 13:07]

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2863 is a reply to message #2861] Fri, 28 April 2006 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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fudadmin wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 06:58

Have you seen MS Access tree view?
Edit: (Relationship)
It exists even 2003 version. Would you suggest MS to throw it away?


Actually, I have not seen Access at all Wink

<offtopic>
In fact, I have not used MS-Office for more than year. Not even installed it on my new computers. OpenOffice works fine for me.
</offtopic>

Classical MDI is not that hard to implement in U++, it is just quite a lot of code to write (my estimate is 500-1000 lines). The most dificult part is actually to draw captions and borders of windows Wink

Mirek

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2866 is a reply to message #2863] Fri, 28 April 2006 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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luzr wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 12:44

fudadmin wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 06:58

Have you seen MS Access tree view?
Edit: (Relationship)
It exists even 2003 version. Would you suggest MS to throw it away?


Actually, I have not seen Access at all Wink

<offtopic>
In fact, I have not used MS-Office for more than year. Not even installed it on my new computers. OpenOffice works fine for me.
</offtopic>

Classical MDI is not that hard to implement in U++, it is just quite a lot of code to write (my estimate is 500-1000 lines). The most dificult part is actually to draw captions and borders of windows Wink

Mirek



As I see the situation now, in many essential areas (no MDI, no Drag&Drop interface, no normal table Ctrl, no normal easy-to-use text Ctrl,no Calendar Ctrl etc. etc.) Ultimate++ is just ultimate collection of buttons! And it is far away from other toolkits... And, if someone wants full set of features which other toolkits have, then he/she has to spend many months on DIY!
No surprise then, that Ultimate's popularity is so low...
And my last year's estimates (that Ultimate++ would catch other toolkits this summer) were too much optimistic... Two more years? Then, maybe...

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2868 is a reply to message #2866] Fri, 28 April 2006 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gprentice is currently offline  gprentice
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fudadmin wrote on Sat, 29 April 2006 02:12

As I see the situation now, in many essential areas (no MDI, no Drag&Drop interface, no normal table Ctrl, no normal easy-to-use text Ctrl,no Calendar Ctrl etc. etc.) Ultimate++ is just ultimate collection of buttons! And it is far away from other toolkits... And, if someone wants full set of features which other toolkits have, then he/she has to spend many months on DIY!
No surprise then, that Ultimate's popularity is so low...
And my last year's estimates (that Ultimate++ would catch other toolkits this summer) were too much optimistic... Two more years? Then, maybe...



Are you sure. Last I heard, MDI had been abandoned by MS quite some time ago.

What do you mean by "easy to use" text control? What is wrong with the exisitng text control - (I haven't used it so I'm wondering what the problem is?)

BTW - does Linux OS support drag & drop?

Graeme

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2869 is a reply to message #2866] Fri, 28 April 2006 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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fudadmin wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 10:12


As I see the situation now, in many essential areas (no MDI, no Drag&Drop interface, no normal table Ctrl, no normal easy-to-use text Ctrl,no Calendar Ctrl etc. etc.) Ultimate++ is just ultimate collection of buttons! And it is far away from other toolkits... And, if someone wants full set of features which other toolkits have, then he/she has to spend many months on DIY!
No surprise then, that Ultimate's popularity is so low...
And my last year's estimates (that Ultimate++ would catch other toolkits this summer) were too much optimistic... Two more years? Then, maybe...


Thank for enouraging words, however, you got the mission goal wrong. U++ is about makeing all things simple to implement, not about having them implemented.

Also, some of things you mention are already done and used (drag&drop, calendar Ctrl), but not perfect. We do not want to provide imperfect solutions as it involves future conversion costs (I think PixelArray->new Image alone is pretty bad and I hope that it will be last major interface upgrade).

Mirek

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2873 is a reply to message #2869] Sat, 29 April 2006 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pivica is currently offline  pivica
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Quote:

Also, some of things you mention are already done and used (drag&drop, calendar Ctrl)


Dose it mean that calendar control exist? Where is it? I cant find it.

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2874 is a reply to message #2873] Sat, 29 April 2006 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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pivica wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 18:11

Quote:

Also, some of things you mention are already done and used (drag&drop, calendar Ctrl)


Dose it mean that calendar control exist? Where is it? I cant find it.


It's in uppbox repository (with example how to use it).

I'm currently working on 2.0 version which is gonna have:
- popuped months and year list
- properly reacting paint method on different font sizes

Expext it together with new chamelon technology..

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2875 is a reply to message #2874] Sat, 29 April 2006 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pivica is currently offline  pivica
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unodgs wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 18:52

pivica wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 18:11

Quote:

Also, some of things you mention are already done and used (drag&drop, calendar Ctrl)


Dose it mean that calendar control exist? Where is it? I cant find it.


It's in uppbox repository (with example how to use it).

I'm currently working on 2.0 version which is gonna have:
- popuped months and year list
- properly reacting paint method on different font sizes

Expext it together with new chamelon technology..


Good to know because I've just started creating my own calendar control. Now I can work on something else Razz

It would be nice to have a list (maybe on site or wiki) of all stuff that are under development, and also all other stuff that are waiting to be developed.
Whit this others could take some task for that list and try to code it.

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2876 is a reply to message #2875] Sat, 29 April 2006 07:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Maybe we should start releasing some form of "experimental packages" with this stuff.

Also, on the opposite side, we in future should start "backwards compatibility layer".

Mirek

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2880 is a reply to message #2868] Sat, 29 April 2006 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gprentice wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 16:21



BTW - does Linux OS support drag & drop?

Graeme



http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/qdropevent.html

Do you think qt provides this only for Windows?

and Fox-toolkit:
  SEL_DND_ENTER,                      // Drag action entering potential drop target
  SEL_DND_LEAVE,                      // Drag action leaving potential drop target
  SEL_DND_DROP,                       // Drop on drop target
  SEL_DND_MOTION,                     // Drag position changed over potential drop target
  SEL_DND_REQUEST,                    // Inquire drag and drop data

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2881 is a reply to message #2869] Sat, 29 April 2006 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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luzr wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 17:47

fudadmin wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 10:12


As I see the situation now, in many essential areas (no MDI, no Drag&Drop interface, no normal table Ctrl, no normal easy-to-use text Ctrl,no Calendar Ctrl etc. etc.) Ultimate++ is just ultimate collection of buttons! And it is far away from other toolkits... And, if someone wants full set of features which other toolkits have, then he/she has to spend many months on DIY!
No surprise then, that Ultimate's popularity is so low...
And my last year's estimates (that Ultimate++ would catch other toolkits this summer) were too much optimistic... Two more years? Then, maybe...


Thank for enouraging words, however, you got the mission goal wrong. U++ is about makeing all things simple to implement, not about having them implemented.

Mirek



So, you are just confirming that Ultimate++ is not a complete toolkit but a collection DIY pieces...

[Updated on: Sat, 29 April 2006 08:38]

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2882 is a reply to message #2881] Sat, 29 April 2006 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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luzr wrote on Fri, 28 April 2006 17:47



U++ is about makeing all things simple to implement, not about having them implemented.

Mirek



So, you are just confirming that Ultimate++ is not a complete toolkit but a collection DIY pieces...
[/quote]

Then, how does it relate to "programmers productivity" advertised on top of the home page? It must be stated that Ultimate is not for "end-user-programmers" but for "libraries-programmers"!

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2886 is a reply to message #2882] Sat, 29 April 2006 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Thing is that programming itself is DIY affair. If it would not be, there would be no programs left to implement Wink

There is also one aspect of this issue - often it is much easier to do some conrete implementation than to generalise the solution to the all problems of the world. E.g. if I would need MDI for any of my applications, I would simply do it in about 50 lines of code (still less than using "ready to use" MDI in many other frameworks). Ditto for drag&drop.

However, makeing "generic all case" MDI is little bit more difficult. Cross-platform, cross-format, inter-application drag&drop is quite hard to do right because there are too many factors involved.

Mirek

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Re: what is the situation with MDI and Dock widget in U++? [message #2889 is a reply to message #2886] Sat, 29 April 2006 10:14 Go to previous message
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luzr wrote on Sat, 29 April 2006 08:44

Thing is that programming itself is DIY affair. If it would not be, there would be no programs left to implement Wink

There is also one aspect of this issue - often it is much easier to do some conrete implementation than to generalise the solution to the all problems of the world. E.g. if I would need MDI for any of my applications, I would simply do it in about 50 lines of code (still less than using "ready to use" MDI in many other frameworks). Ditto for drag&drop.

However, makeing "generic all case" MDI is little bit more difficult. Cross-platform, cross-format, inter-application drag&drop is quite hard to do right because there are too many factors involved.

Mirek


That's why I said "Two more years. Then, maybe..." for Ultimate++ to catch up with other toolkits...

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