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| Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #28971] |
Wed, 29 September 2010 18:00  |
281264
Messages: 272
Registered: June 2010
Location: Spain
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Experienced Member |
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Hi,
All of us know, without a doubt, that U++ is a superb tool. But how many commercial applications do you know developed with U++? Do you know any company that is currently using U++ as a developing tool?
I might me wrong, but my feeling is that U++ needs to expand itself and be more popular; I think that U++ scope is rather limited. Again, that is my feeling and I wish I was wrong.
What do you think?
Best wishes,
Javier
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29067 is a reply to message #29065] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 12:02  |
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| 281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 11:35 |
We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?
IMO, there isn’t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.
So, Mirek et al., what do you think?
Best wishes,
Javier
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The impact is small if you judge it by the number of commercial apps. But for most of U++ programmers the impact on their work is huge.
AFAIK the main target for U++ was originally Mirek  Today I would say the target group are programmers who are not afraid to use modern toolkit even if it has steep learning curve and it is not considered exactly mainstream. It was already discussed here on the forum how many (or actually little) developers is using it now, but a lot of those is literally addicted and ready to support and enhance the framework as much as they can.
I don't believe U++ will cease to exist anytime soon. As I said there is a small but good team of people who love it and who have great codebase written in U++. It already survives more than 10 years. And as far as I can tell, the amount of users is actually accelerating lately (no proof, just my feeling, based on forum registration counts).
Best regards,
Honza
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29072 is a reply to message #29065] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 14:51 |
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Javier,
I do not agree with you.
U++ project have lack of clear ToDo list(documentation, new functionality, etc). This lack exists because everybody have his work. We contribute to U++ only when we have free time, correcting the existing packages or create new packages and decide to share our work to others.
Ion.
| 281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 12:35 |
We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?
IMO, there isn�t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.
So, Mirek et al., what do you think?
Best wishes,
Javier
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[Updated on: Mon, 04 October 2010 14:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29073 is a reply to message #29072] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 15:05 |
cbpporter
Messages: 1428
Registered: September 2007
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Ultimate Contributor |
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I agree with a lot of the things stated above.
But, not including all the excellent contributions from the community, I have the feeling that development from the core team has started slowing down or is about to slow down. and rightfully so: U++ seems to me like nearing completion. There are very few new features that one can add and every project like this has a point where additional features start to serve specific needs better than general needs. Sure, one could improve the debugger, especially for Linux, but that won't change U++. It is just a convenience. Sure, more documentation could be written, but what we have is more than enough and new documentation will probably be written by volunteers. There are some bugs here and there, but no show stoppers.
While I could thing of a few more features that could improve U++, I really don't need any one of them personally. U++ is more than good enough and right now I have a balanced relation with it, where it does what I need without me tweaking it. I think that there are other people that feel like this.
But it would be interesting to see what Mirek things? Are we just about done? Or in phase of small incremental improvements? Or do you have some huge plans for the near future? JPEG2000 ?
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29077 is a reply to message #29065] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 16:42 |
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forlano
Messages: 1221
Registered: March 2006
Location: Italy
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Senior Contributor |
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| 281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 11:35 |
We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?
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Hello,
It was developed for very practical purpose and clear target. Here you can see commercial applications
http://ultimatepp.org/www$uppweb$apps$en-us.html
developed by their team leaders. At that time for them was better to build a new tool and library instead to use the existing ones.
| Quote: |
IMO, there isn’t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.
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At some moment they decided to make public their work and make a great gift to us. With it I did a commercial application
http://www.vegachess.com/tl/index.php/Home_page_English.html
that is one of best in its field and the only able to run in linux and windows. I started as a C++ beginner and I was helped by the forum.
Upp has everything I need. The community is superb and add new stuff when one face new problem and solve it with Upp.
I do not share your warry.
I suppose other users/developers, as me, use it because with Upp their real work is easier and faster than other tools around.
For me was easy to find this site when I was looking for a library to realize my needs. If other people miss this chance it's a pity fot them.
If some years ago I had chosen the most popular widget library now I was somewhere else. Popularity itself is not a value.
Luigi
[Updated on: Mon, 04 October 2010 16:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29084 is a reply to message #29075] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 19:30 |
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mirek
Messages: 14290
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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| 281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 10:19 |
cbpporter: Perhaps from a technical stand point you might be right, but till U++ reaches the popularity of, for example, Eclipse, then –IMHO- the U++ mission is unaccomplished.
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Frankly, 5 years ago I would care. I suspect U++ is the best in technical terms in many areas and it is pity all these fancy ideas have so little adoption (did you e.g. known that U++ memory allocator spends on average much less than single byte per allocated block to store book-keeping information?
Anyway, today all I care is that I can do my job with U++. Going up on popularity ladder is so hard that personally I am exhausted trying
OTOH, it seems like new smart people like Koldo are slowly energizing the whole process and U++ is starting to grow again. Which is perfect situation for me, as I can concentrate on things I can do best (that would be core development)...
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32122 is a reply to message #29093] |
Tue, 26 April 2011 02:19 |
Lance
Messages: 656
Registered: March 2007
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Contributor |
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| Quote: |
When I first met U++ I was scared about the way things were done, and also because of theide appearance.... and I lost almost 1 year before going back to it, after trying some other libraries and IDEs.
Now I think it's the best toolkit around. Up to now, the only (really few) things I was missing I could easily develop by myself with help of this forum which is, IMHO, one of the best support forums I ever met.
So, what to say ? Popularity of U++ ? Well, pity for people that don't use it Smile
Max
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I also registered in 2007 (the year you registered), but I wasted some more years! Completely agree with you. For c++ programmers, U++ library IS the best. IDE-wise, TheIDE might be less powerful than VC++ etc(which has the best code completion), but it's already very usable and is getting better by week (if not by day). With the little attention and resource U++ received, it's a miracle.
Question is: why is U++ not getting enough attention and users?
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32743 is a reply to message #32731] |
Sun, 05 June 2011 12:30 |
gprentice
Messages: 260
Registered: November 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Experienced Member |
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| bruce1948 wrote on Sun, 05 June 2011 01:59 |
Hi,
As a newbie I'd like add my thoughts.
I've been programming for 40 years now (I'm now retired). I was looking for a RAD like toolkit for a project that has personal interest for me and that I now have time to do. U++ fits the bill perfectly, more documentation would be useful and IMO would gain more users. From what I've seen the help on the forum is excellent but some people don't like to ask for help, they prefer to use the documentation, when people like this see that all they need is not documented they will look elsewhere.
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I agree with you but I think it's even more important to have a proper help infrastructure so if you have some time on your hands you could have a look at the "advanced T++ help system" proposal here
http://www.ultimatepp.org/gsoc$uppweb$ideas2011$en-us.html
I'm still keen to do this myself if things ever settle down for me coz it should be fun, but anyone else is welcome to.
Graeme
[Updated on: Sun, 05 June 2011 12:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32860 is a reply to message #32727] |
Wed, 15 June 2011 14:02 |
harmac
Messages: 16
Registered: January 2011
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Promising Member |
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| 281264 wrote on Sat, 04 June 2011 10:32 |
I agree, some learning videos would be fantastic and it may attract new programmers.
I wouldn’t say that the documentation is excellent; in my humble opinion is ok. To me, after a first period, I feel comfortable working with U++ now. However there are many tools/functions not fully documented, and I think it is a pity. Nevertheless, U++ community is excellent.
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I couldn't agree more. Video tutorials can be very attractive, if done right. There is already one linked on the front page, but unfortunately it seems to require Flash to watch it, and it has no proper download link, so I couldn't watch it so far. It would be great to provide if more were prepared and made better accessible.
As regards documentation, I've read in a number of threads and posts here that not everything seems to be properly documented, which is a pity and also a bad habit. Good programming approach would be to write documentation and functionality specification before writing the implementation. It may be convenient to hack something without a specification but then you cannot tell apart bugs from features (what is the behaviour of something that is not defined?).
To bring this thread at least somewhat back to its original topic, I think that incomplete documentation certainly hinders commercial adoption in general, and rightfully so. When I was first looking for programming libraries around for GUI programming, which may now already be some years back, I've also read about WTL as an alternative to MFC, but I couldn't locate proper documentation. User comments were very positive about WTL, but is it widely used? From what I read, it certainly lacks documentation.
| mdelfede wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 22:01 |
When I first met U++ I was scared about the way things were done, and also because of theide appearance.... and I lost almost 1 year before going back to it, after trying some other libraries and IDEs.
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| Lance wrote on Tue, 26 April 2011 02:19 |
I also registered in 2007 (the year you registered), but I wasted some more years!
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Interesting to see that there are more people who didn't make use of U++ until after some time but later came to believe that it would have been a good idea to embrace it earlier. I've also procrastinated learning C++ and U++ so far, but I intend to change that. Hopefully, it will turn out as good.
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