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Home » Community » Coffee corner » How to promote U++ ?
How to promote U++ ? [message #9368] Wed, 02 May 2007 19:54 Go to next message
3togo is currently offline  3togo
Messages: 83
Registered: May 2006
Location: Hong Kong SAR
Member
I see to promote U++ is to encourage those writing mfc and jdk be converted to u++. To this end, we need a demo. A good demonstration to prove that it is not very difficult to convert mfc or jdk to u++. But, there are two questions needed to be answered:
1) is it really not difficult to convert mfc or jdk to u++?
2) is it a compiled u++ application running better than those coded in mfc and jdk?

Below is the top ten most downloaded projects in sf.net . I am wondering whether it is feasible to put U++ to a real test by selecting one project below and translate it to U++.

(http://sourceforge.net/top/topalltime.php?type=downloads)
Rank Project Downloads
1 eMule 306,676,685
2 Azureus 142,672,486
3 Ares Galaxy 98,401,852
4 BitTorrent 51,850,559
5 DC++ 44,984,511
6 Shareaza 37,593,642
7 VirtualDub 32,250,011
8 CDex 31,847,885
9 GTK+ and The GIMP installers for Windows 26,724,204
10 7-Zip

[Updated on: Wed, 02 May 2007 19:56]

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Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #9370 is a reply to message #9368] Wed, 02 May 2007 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
3togo wrote on Wed, 02 May 2007 13:54

I see to promote U++ is to encourage those writing mfc and jdk be converted to u++. To this end, we need a demo. A good demonstration to prove that it is not very difficult to convert mfc or jdk to u++. But, there are two questions needed to be answered:
1) is it really not difficult to convert mfc or jdk to u++?
2) is it a compiled u++ application running better than those coded in mfc and jdk?

Below is the top ten most downloaded projects in sf.net . I am wondering whether it is feasible to put U++ to a real test by selecting one project below and translate it to U++.

(http://sourceforge.net/top/topalltime.php?type=downloads)
Rank Project Downloads
1 eMule 306,676,685
2 Azureus 142,672,486
3 Ares Galaxy 98,401,852
4 BitTorrent 51,850,559
5 DC++ 44,984,511
6 Shareaza 37,593,642
7 VirtualDub 32,250,011
8 CDex 31,847,885
9 GTK+ and The GIMP installers for Windows 26,724,204
10 7-Zip


Should not be a problem, but it would be awful lot of work... (and no real fun).

Mirek

Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #9378 is a reply to message #9370] Thu, 03 May 2007 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
3togo is currently offline  3togo
Messages: 83
Registered: May 2006
Location: Hong Kong SAR
Member
The real fun could be
1) makes U++ more popular
2) polishes U++ existing library
3) develops skills to convert mfc/jdk to u++

Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #9381 is a reply to message #9378] Thu, 03 May 2007 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
OK, you have my permission to take any of them and start converting Smile

(I will work on missing parts of U++ meanwhile... Smile

Mirek
icon6.gif  Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #10473 is a reply to message #9368] Wed, 11 July 2007 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bonami is currently offline  bonami
Messages: 186
Registered: June 2007
Location: Beijing
Experienced Member
is it possible to tell this to some reporters, who might let more ppl know about U++?

[Updated on: Wed, 11 July 2007 06:34]

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Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #10476 is a reply to message #10473] Wed, 11 July 2007 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
bonami wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 22:30

is it possible to tell this to some reporters, who might let more ppl know about U++?


Realistically (after 3 years of experience), it is not that simple. There are myriads of open source projects out there, it is hard to convince the media that exactly this one needs more attention.

Media likes a good story - you need to provide a reason.

You can however submit a good articles about U++, but somebody has to write them like Matt did a year ago:

http://www.codeproject.com/library/IntroUpp.asp

but unfortunately, people capable of doing this are mostly busy with developing U++ or other projects...

Anyway, for upcoming release, a good story is that the new U++ Core beats all other solutions (STL, D language) in speed by quite a large margin (e.g. 4 faster than STL/GCC). It would be definitely worth to come with good benchmark of this - that could be a nice story... Wink
Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #10478 is a reply to message #9368] Wed, 11 July 2007 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mr_ped is currently offline  mr_ped
Messages: 825
Registered: November 2005
Location: Czech Republic - Praha
Experienced Contributor
it just occurred to me those two question were not directly answered:
Quote:


1) is it really not difficult to convert mfc or jdk to u++?
2) is it a compiled u++ application running better than those coded in mfc and jdk?



1) I think it may be difficult to convert instead of writing UI part from scratch. The U++ is pretty efficient if written properly, and trying to convert some MFC in little steps may lead to somewhat cluttered U++ code?
So choosing a project with has good modularity and the UI part of it is both small and well disconnected from the rest of project may be good idea, if you don't want to do something really big.

2) depends. Firstly depends what compiler you use in U++. For windows platform the MSVC is pretty much a must if you want to compete against some other project which is compiled with MSVC. On linux everything is gcc.
And than it depends how much out application is efficient. In JDK some JIT optimizations of some algorithms can lead to an advantage over C++ statically compiled code, but most of the time Java is 20-50% slower, so JDK is by definition not on par with C++ (U++). If your Java app is faster/on par, than you screwed up the C++ version. Very Happy
MFC is just UI. Most of applications performance don't depend too much on UI used, but the U++ looks more lean and mean than MFC, so it will very likely start faster. Otherwise the results should be similar.

And there is the STL vs NTL issue, where NTL should be much faster. So in case the project's performance depends on heave usage of containers, the conversion from MFC/STL to U++/NTL may lead to interesting boost in performance.

conclusion:
In the end you can't say U++ is better.
It is better in many cases. But sometimes it's not.
If you want to make U++ look good, you must choose the project for conversion wisely, because some project would not really benefit from such conversion and the whole effort may backfire than. Smile

And still the main problem remains:
WHO would convert some project?
Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #10590 is a reply to message #9368] Tue, 17 July 2007 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kknd is currently offline  Kknd
Messages: 19
Registered: July 2007
Location: Brasil, SC
Promising Member
Doing a interface for cd ripping CLI programs (like CDex, just a UI) is somewhat easy and would promote U++, because its popular and I don't like CDex =).

For GNU / Linux, there are plenty of programs for this, but for Windows / other O.S, the only Open-Source program that I know is CDex!
Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #10594 is a reply to message #10590] Tue, 17 July 2007 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waxblood is currently offline  waxblood
Messages: 95
Registered: January 2007
Member
I've done my little 'promotion': I simply added a link to Ultimate++ in the Wikipedia Linux page, section Programming On Linux. Maybe next days I'll add something more about U++ in the page, I only added a link cause it was my first editing in a Wikipedia important page, a need to learn a little more about Wikipedia and its customs. It's a really interesting project and community, though.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#Programming_on_Linux



As for developing a promotional app with Upp, maybe giving U+ + the capability to interface with a BitTorrent net would e a good start, it would be general enough to be useful for U++ community and it would allow someone to develop a fully-featured client, like the top-downloaded in the sourceforge list.
BitTorrent protocol is becoming a popular way to uncongest servers.


Ciao,
David
Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #11323 is a reply to message #10594] Tue, 04 September 2007 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dopyiii is currently offline  dopyiii
Messages: 1
Registered: September 2007
Junior Member
For what it's worth, I've also put a link to Ultimate++ on my blog:
http://howtotroubleshoot.blogspot.com/2007/08/i-just-love-id ea-of-free-software_8580.html

I gave Ultimate++ a quick test run to see how it faired compared to the other free IDEs out there, and I must say that I was impressed.

Good work guys!
Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #11334 is a reply to message #10476] Wed, 05 September 2007 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jadeite is currently offline  jadeite
Messages: 42
Registered: January 2006
Member
luzr wrote on Wed, 11 July 2007 02:13


Anyway, for upcoming release, a good story is that the new U++ Core beats all other solutions (STL, D language) in speed by quite a large margin (e.g. 4 faster than STL/GCC). It would be definitely worth to come with good benchmark of this - that could be a nice story... Wink



Exactly what constitutes U++ core that is equivalent to STL and D Language, and what is it that is 4X faster than STL, GCC, and D Language?

One is a library interface, one is a compiler collection, and one is a programming language!!! This statement of 4X makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and sounds absurd.
Re: How to promote U++ ? [message #11340 is a reply to message #11334] Thu, 06 September 2007 20:54 Go to previous message
zsolt is currently offline  zsolt
Messages: 693
Registered: December 2005
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Contributor
I think, you can compare speed of string handling and varios containers of
  • STL that comes with GCC
  • D language
  • U++ NTL

Mirek published some benchmark results here in the forum.
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