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Home » Developing U++ » U++ Developers corner » TheIde new look and new features
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30823 is a reply to message #30771] Mon, 24 January 2011 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
unodgs is currently offline  unodgs
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mr_ped wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 09:29


I don't see clearly which pane is active (only hint is cursor).
edit: also the left bar with doc edit rectangles is available only with active tab, still the difference is minor.
That said you have orange line over top of active tab, in my IDE (host theme in WinXP with classic theme) there's no visual clue at all except having red cross for closing tab.


I agree, that there is no good visual clue, any ideas are welcomed Smile
Quote:


Also what if active tab and secondary tab are too far away from themselves? You can see name of tab by switching to it, so it's probably enough, or may it get annoying? (and we should pin somewhere into edit window the name if tab is gone?)


Right, I thought about this issue too. File name in the editor corner seems good, but I also thought about right aligned tab (that cannot be scrolled) with two splitted file names on it. And in splitted mode this tab is always active. Now if you click on other tab this other tab doesn't become active - clicking on it just causes loading file pointed by it to the editor with focus and updating name on right aligned tab. This way you always see what files are edited without polluting editor space.
Quote:


Can we color the inactive big bar on left (line nums + doc edit + recently modified lines)? Maybe just the base color for unchanged lines. I'm sure it would make identification of panes easy, but I have no idea if it will look good and natural, maybe it will be even more annoying. Smile Something to try out.


coloring ibb (inactive big bar) could be a good idea. I'll think about it.
Quote:


Also I think I would LIKE to have active tab colored in same way for example with that light orange. And in the end I would love to see ColorfulTabs in IDE. Smile

I'm not fan of so many colors Smile You would like to color those tabs automatically (then what is the algorithm - different file extension - different color?) or have possibility to set the color individually?
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30824 is a reply to message #30485] Mon, 24 January 2011 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mr_ped is currently offline  mr_ped
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Quote:

I'm not fan of so many colors Smile You would like to color those tabs automatically (then what is the algorithm - different file extension - different color?) or have possibility to set the color individually?


In firefox I'm using auto random coloring, although you can also assign manually. For me it works, I don't use those colors to recognize particular tab, just it makes easy to distinguish tabs and relax my eyes. With the number of source files I'm using it would be almost impossible to orientate by custom colors, and it would be tedious to assign them. Smile (just checked my current project has 134 files already in IDE)

[Updated on: Mon, 24 January 2011 11:31]

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Re: TheIde new look [message #30825 is a reply to message #30665] Mon, 24 January 2011 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
unodgs is currently offline  unodgs
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raxvan wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 05:38


1. Ide Colors to be customizable (all of them): Ollydbg has a nice simple yellow as a background, Also SublimeText is very interesting as it uses a dark color as a background, keeping your eyes relaxed after reading alot of text.
See: http://www.sublimetext.com/


I saw this editor earlier. Good one Smile But in TheIde you can change background of the editor or you mean the whole ide in dark colors?
Quote:


3. Add docking: at least the source file should be detachable from the interface because right now the IDE can't be used with dual monitors.


I'm interested in this one as well. I'm going to buy second lcd next month Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 24 January 2011 11:48]

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Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30826 is a reply to message #30824] Mon, 24 January 2011 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
unodgs is currently offline  unodgs
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mr_ped wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 05:30


In firefox I'm using auto random coloring, although you can also assign manually. For me it works, I don't use those colors to recognize particular tab, just it makes easy to distinguish tabs and relax my eyes. With the number of source files I'm using it would be almost impossible to orientate by custom colors, and it would be tedious to assign them. Smile (just checked my current project has 134 files already in IDE)

I can add auto coloring tabs. It's very easy so why not Smile One question? With many files open how do you find this small tab scrollbar. Is it convenient for you or you prefer multi line tabs?
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30827 is a reply to message #30818] Mon, 24 January 2011 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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dolik.rce wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 04:03

mirek wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 09:32

In fact, putting code explorer where it is now was partly motivated by the fact that widescreen LCDs are much more standard then original 4:3 today. With widescreen, you have surplus of horizontal space...

You are right about the widescreen spreading everywhere, but the ratio is not everything - the "widescreen" on my primary machine is 1024x600 Very Happy So I strongly support saving as much space as possible, both in horizontal and vertical direction.

Also Tom is IMHO right about keeping the package list on the left (or configurable) to keep the code in the center of the screen. And that is especially true on big screens, where the distance from left side to corner can be quite large.

Honza


Well, clearly, we need all of that customizable...

That said, I really like "two-level" "package->file" approach for selecting files in the ide - I would have to maintain my own branch if proposed "hierarchic" selector would be the only option....
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30828 is a reply to message #30827] Mon, 24 January 2011 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
unodgs is currently offline  unodgs
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mirek wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 06:03


That said, I really like "two-level" "package->file" approach for selecting files in the ide - I would have to maintain my own branch if proposed "hierarchic" selector would be the only option....

I like this separation too. One explorer looks really good but if there are many packages with lots of file one would have to scroll a lot. In current approach I use scrollbar very rarely. Please notice (Mindtraveller) that both packages and files control can display many columns.
I really like freshness / clarity of Mindtraveller explorer and at the same time I like current approach. I wonder if there is a way to combine them somehow. Maintaining own branch for project explorer is not the way IMO. I see couple solutions:
1. Have current approach and the new one in one ide as two separate controls. User could switch between them.
2. Refresh current approach - add new look, sorting etc
3. Implement one control that support both ways of displaying data. Both ways shares most of the features (for example stacking files)
I would vote for 3rd one.
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30829 is a reply to message #30826] Mon, 24 January 2011 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mr_ped is currently offline  mr_ped
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unodgs wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 11:51

mr_ped wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 05:30


In firefox I'm using auto random coloring, although you can also assign manually. For me it works, I don't use those colors to recognize particular tab, just it makes easy to distinguish tabs and relax my eyes. With the number of source files I'm using it would be almost impossible to orientate by custom colors, and it would be tedious to assign them. Smile (just checked my current project has 134 files already in IDE)

I can add auto coloring tabs. It's very easy so why not Smile One question? With many files open how do you find this small tab scrollbar. Is it convenient for you or you prefer multi line tabs?



I prefer current way. I use mouse wheel to scroll, but most of the time I don't need the tab list at all, at the start of task I close all old tabs, then I click trough needed files (in file list on left), then I use Ctrl+Tab most of the time. (usually I need to switch between two files, only rarely I move to other ones)

What is annoying me a lot:
when I close the tab, and I do Ctrl+Tab, it opens it back.
I think the closed tab should move beyond last of opened tabs. So if you have still 4 files open, you have to Ctrl+Tab 4 times to re-open the closed tab, only after you cycle trough all 4 current files.
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30850 is a reply to message #30820] Tue, 25 January 2011 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tojocky is currently offline  tojocky
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unodgs wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 11:15

Don't worry about the side. With docking integrated it can be placed anywhere. Docking has also option to lock the layout that hides every ui element that is related to docking so application can look like docking was not there Smile


Yes, I Agree with you!
Another good thing will be:
1. code folding;
2. When select a whole word then automating mark all other same words in the screen view. It is very useful.
Re: TheIde new look and new features [message #30853 is a reply to message #30850] Tue, 25 January 2011 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cbpporter is currently offline  cbpporter
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This is a very interesting thread and the muck-ups look awesome. By the end of it, nobody should be able to say that TheIDE looks dated. Or maybe they will, since we still get a lot of requests to improve documentation, even if it one of the better ones out there in open source Smile.

But we shouldn't ignore functionality either. In the last few months, I've been using TheIDE more intensively then before. Not as time, but as scope of the projects. And while the experience is generally very good, here are a few random nitpicks that I have discovered:
1. Middle-clicking on the tab bar very fast generates double clicks. This is annoying, making those situations where you have 40 tabs and want to get it down to 10 time consuming because I need to flail the mouse randomly.
2. When doing the above mentioned flailing, sometimes TheIDE crashes.
3. Sometimes it crashes on exit.
4. Sometimes it crashes with big projects if I write by mistake "public::" instead of "public:". It will crash again on start-up when loading the same file, so I have to use another editor and get rid of the extra ":". Reason for crash: out of memory.
5. It crashes when it the exe you ran fails to find .dlls.
6. Go-to-code and ctrl-clicking sometimes feel very random. I understand that we don't look at the types and numbers of parameters, but once I clicked apples in my package and got taken to oranges in Core somewhere. This could simply be improved. If the token and the destination is not the same as at the source, don't jump.
7. TheIDE does not understand namespaces. Makes most of assist useless.
8. Debugger does not kick in if you write your functions on a single line. I think this was an issue in VS too. Discourages you to write short but meaningful inline functions.
9. Debugger does not understand global variables. Sometimes you can't afford dynamic allocation and passing of pointers everywhere for huge buffers and data.
10. Mouse wheel scrolling!
11. Crashes if it can't find compiler binary.

These are some of the things I noticed and remembered. There are a few more.
Re: TheIde new look [message #30863 is a reply to message #30825] Tue, 25 January 2011 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raxvan is currently offline  raxvan
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unodgs wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 11:48


raxvan wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 05:38


...


I saw this editor earlier. Good one Smile But in TheIde you can change background of the editor or you mean the whole ide in dark colors?


Yes , the menu and everything on the left (packages and source files) should have the possibility to change the color. I know that this is a really big change, but the way that sublimeText colored the environment is absolutely brilliant.

Razvan.


92b48bf94855483bb4cec8bcc8c0c933
Re: TheIde new look [message #30864 is a reply to message #30863] Tue, 25 January 2011 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mindtraveller is currently offline  Mindtraveller
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Currently we have two QUICK code navigation features: ^G for local and ^J for global. IMO they are extremely useful. For now, I have a proposal how to make local navigation even more useful.

Simple scenario: one needs to find some function. He may do it with mouse scroller up/down (or just scroll with keys). Or he may press mouse scroller/middle button and switch to thumbnail view of current file where only declarations are displayed, then click one of them automatically switching to "normal view". It is just 2 mouse clicks (against current ^G + time to look at new window + double click). This may seem unimportant, but IMO this will greatly improve local navigation usability.

And finally I tried to imagine how local navigator could look like. Finally it is just the same navigator control (Go to line or symbol...), but placed in the main window and slightly customized:

index.php?t=getfile&id=3060&private=0

IMO this feature almost completely replaces the need of code folding. Because finally folding is just a way of making function declarations more visible. We make the same thing without need of user manually collapsing new functions, we just collapse all the code and expand it back for him with only one click.
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[Updated on: Tue, 25 January 2011 23:20]

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Re: TheIde new look [message #30866 is a reply to message #30864] Wed, 26 January 2011 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
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Mindtraveller wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 22:57

Simple scenario: one needs to find some function. He may do it with mouse scroller up/down (or just scroll with keys). Or he may press mouse scroller/middle button and switch to thumbnail view of current file where only declarations are displayed, then click one of them automatically switching to "normal view". It is just 2 mouse clicks (against current ^G + time to look at new window + double click). This may seem unimportant, but IMO this will greatly improve local navigation usability.

...

IMO this feature almost completely replaces the need of code folding. Because finally folding is just a way of making function declarations more visible. We make the same thing without need of user manually collapsing new functions, we just collapse all the code and expand it back for him with only one click.

That is very good idea. It would really allow much faster navigation in file scope. But I have to disagree with your opinion that it can replace code folding. Folding has much broader use than collapsing functions. E.g. I use it to collapse long for cycle, so that I can write code below it while still seeing variables defined above. Anyway, this feature looks great.

Honza

PS: Oh, and please do not bind it to middle button click - I don't have such button Rolling Eyes Well, it can be emulated by right+left click, but it is hard to perform on my touchpad Smile
Re: TheIde new look [message #30868 is a reply to message #30864] Wed, 26 January 2011 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gprentice is currently offline  gprentice
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Mindtraveller wrote on Wed, 26 January 2011 10:57


IMO this feature almost completely replaces the need of code folding. Because finally folding is just a way of making function declarations more visible. We make the same thing without need of user manually collapsing new functions, we just collapse all the code and expand it back for him with only one click.


I disagree. The purpose of code folding is to hide blocks of code, not whole functions. I think there are a lot more important things to do than code folding though, like improving code navigation and the help mechanisms.

Graeme

Re: TheIde new look [message #30870 is a reply to message #30868] Wed, 26 January 2011 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tojocky is currently offline  tojocky
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gprentice wrote on Wed, 26 January 2011 13:53

Mindtraveller wrote on Wed, 26 January 2011 10:57


IMO this feature almost completely replaces the need of code folding. Because finally folding is just a way of making function declarations more visible. We make the same thing without need of user manually collapsing new functions, we just collapse all the code and expand it back for him with only one click.


I disagree. The purpose of code folding is to hide blocks of code, not whole functions. I think there are a lot more important things to do than code folding though, like improving code navigation and the help mechanisms.

Graeme




The code folding is very good to manage with big files.

What is your propose by improving the code navigation and the help mechanism?
Re: TheIde new look [message #30874 is a reply to message #30870] Thu, 27 January 2011 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gprentice is currently offline  gprentice
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tojocky wrote on Thu, 27 January 2011 03:20


The code folding is very good to manage with big files.

What is your propose by improving the code navigation and the help mechanism?


For code navigation
1.TheIde doesn't always find the correct overload of an overloaded function.
2. Cycle through bookmarks
3. Push/pop temporary bookmarks
4. Retrace where you've recently been.

Also, TheIde keyboard shortcut dialog should be resizeable and include Alt-Left for "go back" after context goto and Alt-Right for go forward.

Regarding the help. I've been looking into improving the help myself and I'm keen to do it but I haven't had much spare time so far. I think TheIde should have a help index along the lines of what I posted in the first post in this thread
http://www.ultimatepp.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=216 38&#msg_21638
and in this thread
http://www.ultimatepp.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=302 65&#msg_30265

so that all of the help is contained within TheIde instead of on the website, and with a proper index. Also I want to be able to press F1 with the cursor on a word and have the help window immediately show me the help relating to that word - like the stuff that you see if you hold the mouse cursor over the little blue box in the gutter. The new help mechanism should work in parallel with the existing help mechanism and also provide bookmarks and history.

Graeme
Re: TheIde new look [message #30896 is a reply to message #30874] Thu, 27 January 2011 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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gprentice wrote on Thu, 27 January 2011 07:13


4. Retrace where you've recently been.



Do you know about Alt+Left/Right?

Mirek
Re: TheIde new look [message #30897 is a reply to message #30896] Fri, 28 January 2011 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gprentice is currently offline  gprentice
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mirek wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 11:48

gprentice wrote on Thu, 27 January 2011 07:13


4. Retrace where you've recently been.



Do you know about Alt+Left/Right?

Mirek



Yep, they're the ones that aren't listed in the keyboard shortcuts dialog as I mentioned in my previous post Smile
They work like a web browser alt-left / right.

By retrace I meant that theide would remember the locations that the cursor has recently been, regardless of how you got there. I wrote an extension for SlickEdit that does this and I use it a lot. I have two retrace lists - one that steps through places in the code that you modified and one that steps through all. Hence you can jump straight to where you last modified some code or back and forth between the last two pieces of code you've been looking at etc.

By the way - context goto is quite a powerful feature. I'm not sure what its limitations are but it seems to work better than I thought. Possibly getting it to work for overloaded operators would be nice as ultimate++ uses them a lot. One of the top features of SlickEdit is its "intellisense" capabilities (a.k.a "context tagging") and U++ seems a fair way there - though slick handles lots of languages including assembler.

Graeme
Re: TheIde new look [message #30898 is a reply to message #30897] Fri, 28 January 2011 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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gprentice wrote on Thu, 27 January 2011 18:38

/ right.

By retrace I meant that theide would remember the locations that the cursor has recently been, regardless of how you got there.


Like left & right arrows?

Plus some location where cursor have been might not exist anymore..
Re: TheIde new look [message #30903 is a reply to message #30898] Fri, 28 January 2011 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gprentice is currently offline  gprentice
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mirek wrote

gprentice wrote



By retrace I meant that theide would remember the locations that the cursor has recently been, regardless of how you got there.


Like left & right arrows?



So in TheIde, if I jump to some other location using search (or page up or switch to another file), does Alt Left take me back to where I was. I'm not at home so I can't try it right now.


mirek wrote


Plus some location where cursor have been might not exist anymore..


It's not a problem. Slickedit provides line-markers (and stream markers) that are "attached" internally to a line. If a line gets deleted, so does a line marker. If a line gets inserted, the line marker moves with the line. Also, I remove "duplicate" line markers that are too "close" (configurable) to other ones myself so it's never a problem.

I wonder how theIde handles bookmarks?

Re: TheIde new look [message #30914 is a reply to message #30903] Fri, 28 January 2011 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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gprentice wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 01:50

mirek wrote

gprentice wrote



By retrace I meant that theide would remember the locations that the cursor has recently been, regardless of how you got there.


Like left & right arrows?



So in TheIde, if I jump to some other location using search (or page up or switch to another file), does Alt Left take me back to where I was. I'm not at home so I can't try it right now.



No, but it is debatable. I mean, what is going there that at some operations you simply store the position. Personally, I do not think this should happen with regular cursor movemement. Maybe jump to the beginning of file or end of file. Or maybe we can even make it configurable, it is quite simple.

Anyway, mechanism is already there, I guess there is no need to create some new one, just to refine the existing.


mirek wrote


I wonder how theIde handles bookmarks?



Good point Wink

Mirek
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