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Home » Community » U++ community news and announcements » The end (?) of ubuntu packages
The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #49369] Wed, 31 January 2018 20:27 Go to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
Messages: 1756
Registered: August 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Senior Contributor

Hi everyone!

I have some possibly sad news for you...

Short version: I will no longer publish the ubuntu packages on launchpad and PKGBUILDs on AUR.

Long version:

Almost exactly 8 years ago, I started maintaining the ubuntu packages on launchpad. The packages were definitely not the best, sometimes there were some outages and sometimes even bugs. But I hope they helped to make life easier for some of you.

A lot happened in my life in those past 8 years: I finished school, got a job, switched from Ubuntu to ArchLinux, started family, ... And as the time went, I had less and less time to spend with my various side projects, sadly including U++. Last two or three years, the launchpad repository only worked out of inertia. When it even worked - sometimes the script broke and it took a couple of months before someone (usually Zbych, thanks!) made me aware of the problem.

Last week, I had to replace the hardware that was running the script which created the packages. I thought for quite some time, if I should migrate it to the new machine, but in the end I have decided it doesn't. I believe that I could be easily replaced and that whoever steps in can do just as good job as I did (and probably even better).

I have also maintained AUR packages for ArchLinux users. They were probably not much used, because I haven't updated them in 6 months and nobody complained. So I will abandon those as well.

If anyone is willing to replace me in this unofficial "job" of U++ packager, I'll be more than happy to share all that I can remember about how those scripts in uppbox/lpbuild2 work. Just contact me via PM.

So long and thanks for all the fish...

Honza
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #49370 is a reply to message #49369] Wed, 31 January 2018 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Klugier is currently offline  Klugier
Messages: 590
Registered: September 2012
Location: Poland, Kraków
Contributor
Dear Honza,

I would like to thank you for your grate work for U++ community. You have done outstanding job in the last 8 years. Personally, I have never used your package, but the existence of them is very important for us and our users.

I think we should move to Snap and/or Flatpack in the future. It is easier to maintenance, between distributions and is more portable solution. Just like our Windows distribution. This is the good moment to re-investigate our market strategy.

At the end - thank you for this outstanding contribution over the last 8 years. I would like to wish you good luck in your personal and profession life. I hope you will never forget about us.

_______________________________________
In addition, Honza outage will not have any impact on the further development cycle or bug fixing activity. He is not active developer since I remember. The only lose is that he gave fantastic support on our forum and he created packages for Ubuntu.

Sincerely,
Klugier


Ultimate++ - one framework to rule them all.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2018 22:16]

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Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #49376 is a reply to message #49369] Thu, 01 February 2018 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 11700
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
dolik.rce wrote on Wed, 31 January 2018 20:27


So long and thanks for all the fish...



Thanks for all the work!

Mirek
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #49380 is a reply to message #49369] Thu, 01 February 2018 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom1
Messages: 597
Registered: March 2007
Contributor
Hi Honza,

Thanks for your great effort! I have used your stable (sometimes nightly too) Ubuntu packages for as long as I remember on my Linux installations. It has been a great help for me since I don't have much free time either due to similar reasons.

Thanks and best regards,

Tom
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #49400 is a reply to message #49369] Sun, 04 February 2018 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 2919
Registered: August 2008
Veteran
Thank you Honza.

I always went to your packages when I wanted to install U++ in a new computer or VM.

I began with U++ when my family life began, life is complex ... That's life! Smile Smile


Best regards
Iñaki
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50085 is a reply to message #49400] Tue, 17 July 2018 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alboni is currently offline  Alboni
Messages: 174
Registered: January 2012
Location: Deventer, Netherlands
Experienced Member
So I went ahead and built packages for ubuntu 18.04 (bionic beaver) of the latest stable version for my own comfort. Might might as well share them Smile


theide package (bionic)

upp package

[Updated on: Tue, 17 July 2018 13:55]

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Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50087 is a reply to message #49369] Thu, 19 July 2018 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alboni is currently offline  Alboni
Messages: 174
Registered: January 2012
Location: Deventer, Netherlands
Experienced Member
So yes, I am willing to look into creating a new ppa for ubuntu packages.
I need to do this for my own projects anyway.
I figured out how to create a repository on my own webspace for my stuff. That is working. I didn't consider launchpad for that as they won't allow closed source projects.
Setting up a upp repository on my own space could be quickly arranged.
Launchpad would need more investigation. Helpful suggestions are welcome.

[Updated on: Thu, 19 July 2018 11:27]

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Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50088 is a reply to message #50087] Thu, 19 July 2018 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 11700
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
That would great!
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50089 is a reply to message #50087] Thu, 19 July 2018 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Klugier is currently offline  Klugier
Messages: 590
Registered: September 2012
Location: Poland, Kraków
Contributor
Hello Alboni,

That's great news. I keep my fingers crossed for the success of your mission Smile

Sincerely,
Klugier


Ultimate++ - one framework to rule them all.
icon14.gif  Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50090 is a reply to message #50087] Thu, 19 July 2018 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
Messages: 1756
Registered: August 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Senior Contributor

Hi Alboni,

Big thumbs up for your idea to maintain the packages! Smile

Alboni wrote on Thu, 19 July 2018 11:26
I figured out how to create a repository on my own webspace for my stuff. That is working. I didn't consider launchpad for that as they won't allow closed source projects.


Just few points to consider, before you ditch Launchpad completely:

- Launchpad provides resources to automatically build packages for any version and any supported architecture of Ubuntu. This is probably not so important anymore, as almost nobody uses 32bit systems these days. Although you might also build packages for ARM, I think some people tried U++ on Raspberry Pi and similar devices.

- The packages can take quite some space, just keeping the latest version of all the packages for both architectures took up to 2GB of disk space. This might be of concern if you have limited storage on your webspace.

- The PPA from Launchpad is slightly easier to install into system, especially for newbies. With launchpad it is just a single command (
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:dolik-rce/upp-nightly
), while for any other repository, you must usually manually edit a configuration file in /etc/apt/.

Also note, that there is another free alternative, providing similar services, but not limited to ubuntu derivatives: Open Build Service, provided by openSUSE. This one lets you use their build farm to build packages for SUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch Linux, Fedora and probably other distros. Not that I'd suggest you do all of that - it is a lot of work Smile In comparison to launchpad, OBS has steeper learning curve, but lets you do much more.

Anyway, good luck with the packaging and if you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask. I still follow this forum and I'd be glad to help to keep the packages available for everyone.

Best regards,
Honza
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50137 is a reply to message #50090] Mon, 06 August 2018 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alboni is currently offline  Alboni
Messages: 174
Registered: January 2012
Location: Deventer, Netherlands
Experienced Member
A little message about progress.

I am in the middle of moving to a different house, so it could take a month before I can continue with this.
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50161 is a reply to message #50090] Thu, 09 August 2018 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seasoned_geek is currently offline  seasoned_geek
Messages: 10
Registered: August 2018
Location: Herscher, IL
Promising Member
dolik.rce wrote on Thu, 19 July 2018 13:16
Hi Alboni,


- Launchpad provides resources to automatically build packages for any version and any supported architecture of Ubuntu. This is probably not so important anymore, as almost nobody uses 32bit systems these days. Although you might also build packages for ARM, I think some people tried U++ on Raspberry Pi and similar devices.



32-bit packages are really important. Most serious embedded systems are still using 32-bit and will be for foreseeable future. Many of these battery operated devices are trying to run in 512Meg or less.

What's more important would be a good cross compile for Raspberry Pi. By that I mean a 64-bit YABU install which has a script or something to setup cross compiling to Raspberry Pi.

Personally, I haven't used U++ yet. Been in the cross platform world since days of ZAF (Zinc Application Framework) on DOS. Most recent years spent doing Qt for embedded systems. Looking at U++ now like many others because current owners of Qt have started demanding licenses and royalties so they can adopt a lifestyle to which they would like to become accustomed. A serious number of embedded projects are now looking for alternatives, especially for projects starting some time next year. One thing which made Qt so popular was being fairly simple to set up remote debugging.

P.S. That one U++ to Qt comparison is from when Trolltech owned Qt eons ago.


Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions

Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50164 is a reply to message #50161] Fri, 10 August 2018 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 11700
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
Quote:

What's more important would be a good cross compile for Raspberry Pi. By that I mean a 64-bit YABU install which has a script or something to setup cross compiling to Raspberry Pi.

Personally, I haven't used U++ yet. Been in the cross platform world since days of ZAF (Zinc Application Framework) on DOS. Most recent years spent doing Qt for embedded systems. Looking at U++ now like many others because current owners of Qt have started demanding licenses and royalties so they can adopt a lifestyle to which they would like to become accustomed. A serious number of embedded projects are now looking for alternatives, especially for projects starting some time next year. One thing which made Qt so popular was being fairly simple to set up remote debugging.


I really would like to look into this, if you would be willing to help with details. I think that U++ would be a really great match for this kind of job.

Quote:
P.S. That one U++ to Qt comparison is from when Trolltech owned Qt eons ago.


Definitely, on both sides. Was not updated for some time.
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50165 is a reply to message #50164] Fri, 10 August 2018 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alboni is currently offline  Alboni
Messages: 174
Registered: January 2012
Location: Deventer, Netherlands
Experienced Member
Compiling on a pi is indeed is bit painful. Takes a whole night to compile theide & umk with the makefile in the tarball. Of course using umk it could go faster but I can't really imagine someone to be interested in nightly binaries of theide and umk on a pi or embedded system and the source packages can be used on all platforms. So I can imagine doing something like this:

Stable repository:
-stable binary ubuntu xenial 32+64 bit
-stable binary ubuntu bionic 32+64 bit
-stable binary ubuntu cosmic 32+64 bit (when it becomes available)
-stable binary for current version of raspian
-stable source package for all platforms

nightly repository
-nightly binary ubuntu xenial 64 bit
-nightly binary ubuntu bionic 64 bit
-nightly binary ubuntu cosmic 64 bit (when it becomes available)
-stable binary ubuntu xenial 32 bit
-stable binary ubuntu bionic 32 bit
-stable binary ubuntu cosmic 32 bit (when it becomes available)
-stable binary for current version of raspian
-nightly source package all platforms

(trusty's compiler only has experimental support for C++11 so maybe an oldstable version also if there is a need)

& the occasional odd request

(but I still need to check out launchpad)
Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50167 is a reply to message #50164] Fri, 10 August 2018 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seasoned_geek is currently offline  seasoned_geek
Messages: 10
Registered: August 2018
Location: Herscher, IL
Promising Member
[quote title=mirek wrote on Fri, 10 August 2018 05:51]Quote:


I really would like to look into this, if you would be willing to help with details. I think that U++ would be a really great match for this kind of job.


There is some small purchase in this possibility. I have about 8 essays to complete in the book I'm writing before I send it off for first round editing. "The Phallus of AGILE and Other Ruminations" if anyone cares about the title. It's a long way from my first. I'm the author of "The Minimum You Need to Know" series.

Within a week I should have nailed down which contract I will work on next so I will know if I'm working remotely or traveling on-site. I do have a Raspberry Pi all boxed up because I'm done using it for client work.

My current desktop of choice is KDE Neon 64-bit which is a YABU. On this particular desktop the U++ PPA wouldn't run. Well, theIDE came up but I couldn't get anything to work. I tried walking through the "Hello Wold" tutorial on the Web site, but it wasn't even close to the current IDE. I'm not blaming the PPA though. I know there is something wrong on this machine, but waiting until first draft out the door before wiping and re-installing. One of my other machines running exact same distro of KDE Neon has been able to install and run a few packages this one can't. Been too many things installed and removed on this machine I fear. Don't really want to take time or risk of breaking things until current book has completed first draft.

Would prefer developing/testing with a non-Ubuntu YABU. Have been considering migrating this development desktop to PinguyOS. I have it on one of my BOINC machines and it looks pretty sweet. It just doesn't have KATE.


Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions

Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50168 is a reply to message #50165] Fri, 10 August 2018 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seasoned_geek is currently offline  seasoned_geek
Messages: 10
Registered: August 2018
Location: Herscher, IL
Promising Member
Alboni wrote on Fri, 10 August 2018 06:36
Compiling on a pi is indeed is bit painful. Takes a whole night to compile theide & umk with the makefile in the tarball. Of course using umk it could go faster but I can't really imagine someone to be interested in nightly binaries of theide and umk on a pi or embedded system and the source packages can be used on all platforms. So I can imagine doing something like this:

Stable repository:
-stable binary ubuntu xenial 32+64 bit
-stable binary ubuntu bionic 32+64 bit
-stable binary ubuntu cosmic 32+64 bit (when it becomes available)
-stable binary for current version of raspian
-stable source package for all platforms

nightly repository
-nightly binary ubuntu xenial 64 bit
-nightly binary ubuntu bionic 64 bit
-nightly binary ubuntu cosmic 64 bit (when it becomes available)
-stable binary ubuntu xenial 32 bit
-stable binary ubuntu bionic 32 bit
-stable binary ubuntu cosmic 32 bit (when it becomes available)
-stable binary for current version of raspian
-nightly source package all platforms

(trusty's compiler only has experimental support for C++11 so maybe an oldstable version also if there is a need)

& the occasional odd request

(but I still need to check out launchpad)


Honestly, I wouldn't worry about nightly builds. Anyone doing serious development for a Raspberry is using an LTS YABU and most likely has locked it down from updates.

I did have some stuff for cross compiling Qt to Raspberry Pi on my geek blog:

http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/raspberry-pi/raspb erry-qt-part-1/

When you select a category you will find one for Raspberry Pi with about 30 posts. No, I didn't get all the way to the end of the series as paying work came up and development OS changed significantly. We all had to come up with our own because the wiki instructions were horribly broken for years.

The boys and girls at Qt swear the new wiki instructions work for 64-bit host.
https://wiki.qt.io/Raspberry_Pi_Beginners_Guide

You should be able to leave out the Qt parts.

I stumbled into just how broken the original instructions were around here

http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-techno logy/how-far-weve-come-pt-18/

When it comes to most of the business client situations I encounter in the Qt world (and therefore where U++ should focus IMO) it is a full screen app without a desktop. Just mouse and touchscreen support. Versions 4.x had a command line switch you could use which would load a minimalist windowing engine (with more than a few quirks), other places had other solutions.

Most places want to develop a completely custom UI for their embedded system. I wrote roughly half of the Qt based source code for the UI on this product.

https://www.welchallyn.com/en/products/categories/patient-mo nitoring/vital-signs-devices/connex-spot-monitor.html

We had no GPU so had to preload and blit our images onto the screen. There were times when stepping in front of an Amtrak train seemed a better option than staying until the end of the project, but that UI finally came out sexy. That main screen dynamically reconfigures itself based on whatever mode a clinician is in. The blocks reshape and reposition themselves. Some place on that link is a link to pull down the user manual for the device. It contains some really sexy looking screen shots of various other screens.

My initial interest in U++ is simply in getting it working on my desktop to create some of the initial test applications I always write. A lottery tracker, that serial keypad thing and a few others. Then I wanted to see how it would be for embedded system type applications with a completely custom screen, message queues and a bit of network communications. I'm kicking the tires to see just how viable it would be in the world where I now live given it doesn't have dynamically changing license requirements.

I liked some of the screen shots I saw which appeared to indicate the package has dynamically selectable styles. I'm a bit interested in just how difficult it is to create a custom style (a totally dark art in the Qt world)

Sorry for the long winded reply. Not trying to brag, just trying to provide a frame of reference since people on here don't know me from Adam.


Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions

Re: The end (?) of ubuntu packages [message #50169 is a reply to message #50167] Fri, 10 August 2018 18:53 Go to previous message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 11700
Registered: November 2005
Ultimate Member
seasoned_geek wrote on Fri, 10 August 2018 17:49

My current desktop of choice is KDE Neon 64-bit which is a YABU. On this particular desktop the U++ PPA wouldn't run. Well, theIDE came up but I couldn't get anything to work. I tried walking through the "Hello Wold" tutorial on the Web site, but it wasn't even close to the current IDE. I'm not blaming the PPA though. I know there is something wrong on this machine, but waiting until first draft out the door before wiping and re-installing. One of my other machines running exact same distro of KDE Neon has been able to install and run a few packages this one can't. Been too many things installed and removed on this machine I fear. Don't really want to take time or risk of breaking things until current book has completed first draft.

Would prefer developing/testing with a non-Ubuntu YABU. Have been considering migrating this development desktop to PinguyOS. I have it on one of my BOINC machines and it looks pretty sweet. It just doesn't have KATE.


You should always be able to install from tarball... It is really simple.

Mirek
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