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Home » Community » PR, media coverage, articles and documentation » PR!
icon14.gif  Re: PR! [message #20542 is a reply to message #20536] Sun, 22 March 2009 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
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andrei_natanael wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 15:50

Also first page should contain a short description of project and news updated daily or weekly about the project, new releases, community announcements and so on. The content of site should me more organized


Completely agree. I would have proposed to expand the news RSS feed. And make a special section of news, news of which could be placed at other news sites (to name a section of press releases).

And more. Versions are available too rare. If you look at the process of release from the company Microsoft - then these guys are not seriously disturbed by the fact that after release had to release service pack. I think this is a good practice. It is too rarely go steady - still are working on SVN version - hence the meaning of a stable version - remains a bit.

If you do not like the name - the stable version, then let him be a beta version. In any case, release of a new beta version can be reflected in the press release or news, and provide all the commentary that in this case, the beta version is almost a working version. Through RSS feeds it will be regularly updated on news and Open Source sites. Strongly increasing popularity.


SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
    under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
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Re: PR! [message #20543 is a reply to message #20541] Sun, 22 March 2009 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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andrei_natanael wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 15:10

sergeynikitin wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 16:41


No, do not need such revolutionary changes. Forum - excellent. A separate forum for bugs - unnecessary. Moreover, it is not quite in the style of community Ultimate. And in the style of Ultimate - no bugs and bug-reports, and if necessary future - then do it himself.



You don't understand me in some ways... I don't want a separate forum for bug reports what I want is something like Track, useful when reporting bugs and also useful for feature request. In that way the majority of users like to interact with project developers and that's the fact why U++ in not mainstream (as some people reminded in past posts) and wide used. Even if you do a great software if you don't make it accessible to majority, it's almost nothing because just some select clients will benefit from it.

About new forum... I think current forum is old. It was released in 19 September 2006. So 3 years is enough for it. How you reflect the "innovations" which U++ and how you demonstrate it when U++ have an old forum and informations from site are mostly outdated.

I don't want to create a list with U++ shortcomings here (maybe i will start one Rolling Eyes ) but I don't see how we have an increasing community if informations we provide are outdated and old-class infos and we don't get in step with changes.

Just my 0.99$ Razz


Well, the problem about forum is about upgrade while retaining the current data...

I am afraid for good or bad, we are stuck with fud for this reason. We might check a newer version, but that is about all we can do...

Mirek
icon14.gif  Re: PR! [message #20546 is a reply to message #20543] Sun, 22 March 2009 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
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luzr wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 22:52

I am afraid for good or bad, we are stuck with fud for this reason. We might check a newer version, but that is about all we can do...

Mirek


Yes, this forum - this invaluable wealth of knowledge. It must be preserved. Possibly as a reorganization of the data. Maybe try to manually modify the forum PHP motor.

Perhaps you need to put the source code forum to network.


SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
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    under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
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[Updated on: Sun, 22 March 2009 21:01]

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Re: PR! [message #20547 is a reply to message #20546] Sun, 22 March 2009 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tojocky is currently offline  tojocky
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Concept of FUD forum is very interesting and very flexible! In administration menu you can build new theme and language pack, edit or add new functionality based on template construction!
The best way about forum I thing we need to add new sections... or group messages in "wish list" with states and priority, "bug report" and other.
News lent with new changes on the first page.
About U++ we need to improve the documentation, maintain new practice and modern examples!
On the first page I thing we need to write first 10 proposes most important why U++ is good!
The most important, we need to add mechanisms to import projects from other IDEs (Visual Studio, Code::Block, KDevelope and other).
Re: PR! [message #20549 is a reply to message #20547] Sun, 22 March 2009 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mindtraveller is currently offline  Mindtraveller
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OK, it looks like second iteration to logo:
index.php?t=getfile&id=1644&private=0

tojocky wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 00:21

On the first page I thing we need to write first 10 proposes most important why U++ is good!
Good idea! Let people know why U++ is not "yet another framework".
  • Attachment: upp2.jpg
    (Size: 8.12KB, Downloaded 1433 times)
Re: PR! [message #20550 is a reply to message #20549] Mon, 23 March 2009 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
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People! do not need more to develop a magnetic subject.

A magnet does not pass any commonality with U++ or with C++.

And the symbol ++ is not obvious.

Another point. Thick enough to cross - is associated with the Swiss cross and not with the plus sign.
Lines of crosses to be thinner.

I think 2 plus sign should be close (together) - this is what made sense in the designation of the language C++.


SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
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Re: PR! [message #20552 is a reply to message #20550] Mon, 23 March 2009 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cbpporter is currently offline  cbpporter
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I think we should build on what we have.

1. Logo should remain the same. It's not like we are changing anything in the framework, we are just trying to promote it. But the style of the logo is old. Modern logo's have gradients and realistic shading. Check out what Oxygen/KDE did with their icons, or how Vista updated the icon for Notepad from the Windows 95 look.

I think I saw some updated icons in an old thread somewhere on the forum, but I can't find it again.

Touching up the logo should be no big deal. If one of us can't do it, a struggling young artist will do a great job for a small amount of money.

2. The forum should stay. It is both an adequate platform of communication and an archive of a lot of valuable information. Going through it and archiving some old threads would be in order, but that is a monumental task and I don't think anybody has the resources or patience to do it.

3. We do need some great introductory articles which must address the most important aspects that differentiate U++ from other frameworks, like:
- why do we re implement STL? Couldn't we have developed a compromise solution, using STL as much as possible and adding just a few containers, like Movable enabled ones? Couldn't we have used STL naming conventions and iterators? I know STL containers don't have a virtual destructor, but that doesn't mean you can't inherit and modify behavior. Sure, there are some restrictions, but we could have retrofitted some standard containers with some useful methods.
- why do we use default pick semantics? Won't it cause a lot of problems? Big learning curve and hidden bugs? Design pattern books say that this is a bad practice. And it is in a world of default copy construction, so we need to highlight that the framework is more or less capable of handling pick semantics without issues because if was designed that way. This issue is going to be hard to "market". I've been using U++ for quite some time now, and while I think that copy constructing should not be enforced on a STL level, we should have left = as default copy construct and only use pick with and explicit picking method/operator.
- why don't we have a couple of libs and some .h. Everybody does that. "Source based distribution? Why? I don't want to recompile everything. What is this, the kernel? You're just lazy!". We need to explain the advantages of U++ modularity. Also BLITZ must be handled with care. It is not well received in a business environment and managers tend to avoid it.
- why do we allocate everything on the stack? This makes a lot of common pattern harder to use. U++ doesn't play nice with things like abstract factories if we follow our style, and if we adopt their style, we loose a lot of U++'s advantages and simplicity.
- leaving aside NTL, why do we implement a new set of widgets? We could have used one of the existing toolkits and expand upon it. Even better question: leaving aside details and language differences, what can U++ widgets do that Gtk ones can't? Gtk is used everywhere, and GtkMM should be a better supported equivalent of U++, right? Such questions will arise, and different environments will have different levels of resistance. For Windows development, most people I know that do C++ would ask: "Another set of widgets? What version of MFC is it built upon? I can't be better than ToolKit Pro."

And the list could go on and on. What I'm trying to say is that U++ is different, and we need to show this and also why it is good thing. If we create false expectations, we won't get anything more that a temporary interest.

[Updated on: Mon, 23 March 2009 10:43]

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Re: PR! [message #20553 is a reply to message #20552] Mon, 23 March 2009 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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cbpporter wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 05:21

- why do we allocate everything on the heap? This makes a lot of common



You meant stack, I believe?

Quote:


pattern harder to use. U++ doesn't play nice with things like abstract factories if we follow our style, and if we adopt their style, we loose a lot of U++'s advantages and simplicity.



U++ plays very nicely with abstract factories, following its style...

OTOH, maybe that is the point. We should make a document explaining how U++ style alters some common patterns, especially those that are seemingly hard to do in "stack" based U++.

The common motto IMO should be something along

"U++ containers replace GC"

Can we prepare a list? Maybe in separate thread (starting it now in Docs).

Mirek
Re: PR! [message #20554 is a reply to message #20552] Mon, 23 March 2009 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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cbpporter wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 05:21

I think we should build on what we have.

1. Logo should remain the same. It's not like we are changing anything in the framework, we are just trying to promote it. But the style of the logo is old. Modern logo's have gradients and realistic shading. Check out what Oxygen/KDE did with their icons, or how Vista updated the icon for Notepad from the Windows 95 look.



I agree. The magnet was meant as joke. Let us get current logo updated.

OTOH, we might use the magnet as "BIG" splash screen graphics.

Mirek
Re: PR! [message #20556 is a reply to message #20549] Mon, 23 March 2009 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Mindtraveller wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 18:15

OK, it looks like second iteration to logo:
index.php?t=getfile&id=1644&private=0

tojocky wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 00:21

On the first page I thing we need to write first 10 proposes most important why U++ is good!
Good idea! Let people know why U++ is not "yet another framework".



Well, to have some fun, I have placed it to the splash screen now.

Download U++ tomorrow and tell me how it feels Smile

Mirek
Re: PR! [message #20557 is a reply to message #20553] Mon, 23 March 2009 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cbpporter is currently offline  cbpporter
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luzr wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 11:35


You meant stack, I believe?


Yes, I do. "Allocate on heap" as an expression seems to be deeply routed in my subconscious Smile.

Quote:


U++ plays very nicely with abstract factories, following its style...

OTOH, maybe that is the point. We should make a document explaining how U++ style alters some common patterns, especially those that are seemingly hard to do in "stack" based U++.


Very good idea. I don't use factories a lot, but when I tried in U++ I came to the conclusion that it doesn't play nice. So I'll definitely what to read that document.
Re: PR! [message #20560 is a reply to message #20557] Mon, 23 March 2009 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tojocky is currently offline  tojocky
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Every creator and developer of his part of u++ library need write documentation, make simple examples to demonstrate facility for new user and himself when he forgets. In this way, the collected information can grouping and set a style!
icon3.gif  Re: PR! [message #20564 is a reply to message #20472] Mon, 23 March 2009 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
h3l1 is currently offline  h3l1
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Hi there,

here is just also an idea of a new u++ logo...
index.php?t=getfile&id=1645&private=0
  • Attachment: upp-logo.png
    (Size: 7.35KB, Downloaded 1295 times)
Re: PR! [message #20566 is a reply to message #20564] Mon, 23 March 2009 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
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Letters - excellent. More work on the fire, or something that would portray speed. The bad news is that the flame will not be visible in a monochrome version of the logo. You can make a shadow as in the logo of Formula 1.
index.php?t=getfile&id=1646&private=0
  • Attachment: F1.jpg
    (Size: 2.94KB, Downloaded 1423 times)


SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
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Re: PR! [message #20578 is a reply to message #20549] Tue, 24 March 2009 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Mindtraveller wrote on Sun, 22 March 2009 18:15

OK, it looks like second iteration to logo:
index.php?t=getfile&id=1644&private=0

tojocky wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 00:21

On the first page I thing we need to write first 10 proposes most important why U++ is good!
Good idea! Let people know why U++ is not "yet another framework".



Well, I think for now "magnet" is nice at splash-screen, anyway, I have to do ask:

Do we have permission to use it?

Mirek
Re: PR! [message #20581 is a reply to message #20472] Tue, 24 March 2009 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
h3l1 is currently offline  h3l1
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Hi there,

just finished the reworked logo and so I have seen Mirek has already chosen the magnetic one. Cool

I will upload the fireball logo just for free use to everyone.
It's done in inkscape.

index.php?t=getfile&id=1647&private=0
  • Attachment: upp-logo.png
    (Size: 23.96KB, Downloaded 1299 times)
Re: PR! [message #20582 is a reply to message #20581] Tue, 24 March 2009 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
h3l1 is currently offline  h3l1
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and here comes the svg. maybe it will sometime help to test the svgpainter Very Happy
Re: PR! [message #20583 is a reply to message #20582] Tue, 24 March 2009 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chickenk is currently offline  chickenk
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Hello,

I like this fireball logo personally.

I made the text in italic just to show a different version that I prefer a bit :

index.php?t=getfile&id=1649&private=0

Lionel
Re: PR! [message #20584 is a reply to message #20583] Tue, 24 March 2009 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chickenk is currently offline  chickenk
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And here it the Inkscape file...

regards
Lionel
Re: PR! [message #20585 is a reply to message #20581] Tue, 24 March 2009 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mr_ped is currently offline  mr_ped
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I like the letters a lot. And I generally like fireballs too. Smile
I'm just scratching my head what does the fireball have with U++ and what kind of message is sending it to the viewer.
So while from visual point of view I quite like it, I just wonder whether it's possible to do something similar with more appropriate symbol. But I have no idea for a good new symbol.
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