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Home » Community » Ultimate++ Webs: Functioning, Layout , Design, Features and Structure of these forums, homepage etc. » Index page translation
Index page translation [message #26463] Wed, 05 May 2010 09:00 Go to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
Hello all

I think it is good to have our index page (http://www.ultimatepp.org) translated to as many languages as possible. This is because it is like our cover letter, a small summary about what we are, to be linked from web.

Now U++ index page (http://www.ultimatepp.org) is translated to english, català (catalan), español (spanish), français (french) and русский (russian).

It is very easy to translate it. You can get as a seed the translation closer to your language. For example, to translate it to italian I would begin from catalan or spanish translation. Google translator could also help.

Looking to our .t files it seems we could easily translate it to (unordered list Smile ). If your language is not in this list I invite you to add it.

- čeština (czech)
- deutsch (german)
- suomen (finnish)
- magyar (hungarian)
- italiano (italian)
- dutch
- polszczyzna (polish)
- română (romanian)
- svenska (swedish)
- türkçe (turkish)
- 简体中文 (simplified chinese PRC)
- 繁體中文 (traditional chinese Taiwan)

If you want to translate it to your language but you do not feel comfortable editing uppweb package, you can give me the translation and I can upload it for you. If you want your name will appear between the U++ translators.


Best regards
Iñaki
Re: Index page translation [message #26466 is a reply to message #26463] Wed, 05 May 2010 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
Messages: 1758
Registered: August 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Senior Contributor

Hi Koldo!
I'll take care about the Czech translation. I was planning to translate the website anyways... Even though Czech is not a world-wide language I think there is quite high ratio of Czechs in our community, especially between the core developers Smile

BTW: It would be nice if we could display the index page in users preferred language (as configured in the browser). Technical details: Browser sends HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE header, which contains an array of languages with their priorities. We should serve the best one available or use English as fallback. Unfortunately, it would require a little changes to uppweb. The easiest way to do it (AFAIK) would be a simple php wrapper (i.e. load index.php that would just choose the correct language and serve index$xx-yy.html). It could be probably done on the apache level as well, but I don't have the skills. It could be also done using javascript on client side, but that would be buggy and ugly.

Best regards,
Honza
Re: Index page translation [message #26467 is a reply to message #26466] Wed, 05 May 2010 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
Messages: 736
Registered: January 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contributor

More languages and translations!
The more translations and languages - the more talented members of the Ultimate community!
"All flags - a visit to us!"
Smile


SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
    under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
Re: Index page translation [message #26468 is a reply to message #26463] Wed, 05 May 2010 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sc0rch is currently offline  Sc0rch
Messages: 99
Registered: February 2008
Location: Russia, Rubtsovsk
Member

Russian translation of Index-page has been updated to common style.
When I find the time, I'll translate other pages.

Best regards, sorry for my English,
Anton.
Re: Index page translation [message #26469 is a reply to message #26468] Wed, 05 May 2010 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
Messages: 736
Registered: January 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contributor

Hi Anton!, I'll continue translation too.

SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
    under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
Re: Index page translation [message #26471 is a reply to message #26463] Wed, 05 May 2010 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andrei_natanael is currently offline  andrei_natanael
Messages: 262
Registered: January 2009
Experienced Member
Hello
About index page, i think some links are redundant, they appear in both sections "Getting Started" and "Users". IMO Overview and Comparison should be removed from User section and remain only in Getting Started section because a user of U++ doesn't read overview and comparison every time but only first time when he start with U++. Also pages like Web index which are marked as "To be done" should not appear unless they exists.

Andrei
Re: Index page translation [message #26473 is a reply to message #26471] Wed, 05 May 2010 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
Hello Andrei

Quote:

About index page, i think some links are redundant, they appear in both sections "Getting Started" and "Users". IMO Overview and Comparison should be removed from User section and remain only in Getting Started section because a user of U++ doesn't read overview and comparison every time but only first time when he start with U++.

For me it is ok.

Quote:

Also pages like Web index which are marked as "To be done" should not appear unless they exists.

Really it is there for the community to give their opinion and for them to know it is going to be done. However it is not really very important. If more people think the same it can be removed. The only problem is that in that case probably it will never be done Smile.


Best regards
Iñaki
Re: Index page translation [message #26476 is a reply to message #26473] Wed, 05 May 2010 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sergeynikitin is currently offline  sergeynikitin
Messages: 736
Registered: January 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contributor

I think for all-known project - yes you can remove the overview. But while community leaders and project schetayut that ULTIMATE still not known, it is better to leave these pages in the main index (this is my personal opinion which may not coincide with the majority opinion)

PS
We need more opinions to the discussion.


SergeyNikitin<U++>( linux, wine )
{
    under( Ubuntu || Debian || Raspbian );
}
Re: Index page translation [message #26478 is a reply to message #26471] Thu, 06 May 2010 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
Messages: 1758
Registered: August 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Senior Contributor

andrei_natanael wrote on Wed, 05 May 2010 16:04

Hello
About index page, i think some links are redundant, they appear in both sections "Getting Started" and "Users". IMO Overview and Comparison should be removed from User section and remain only in Getting Started section because a user of U++ doesn't read overview and comparison every time but only first time when he start with U++.
I totally agree.

andrei_natanael wrote on Wed, 05 May 2010 16:04

Also pages like Web index which are marked as "To be done" should not appear unless they exists.
As Koldo said, if it is not there, it will be never done Smile I think that inactive link with this note is quite self-explaining, so nobody gets confused. And I also believe, that within three months, someone will implement this functionality Wink

Honza
Re: Index page translation [message #26479 is a reply to message #26476] Thu, 06 May 2010 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andrei_natanael is currently offline  andrei_natanael
Messages: 262
Registered: January 2009
Experienced Member
sergeynikitin wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 00:18

I think for all-known project - yes you can remove the overview. But while community leaders and project schetayut that ULTIMATE still not known, it is better to leave these pages in the main index (this is my personal opinion which may not coincide with the majority opinion)

PS
We need more opinions to the discussion.

Sorry for confusion, i don't want to remove Overview from the main index but only duplicated links from it and Overview and Comparison appear twice. Please re-read my previous post.

Another concern i have is about page layout. If one change the layout of one page the change will not propagate to other pages (e.g. translated pages) because the layout is included with every page so Topic++ doesn't help too much here. What if we have one page (for every page) with text in english and a tool which will extract the text from it, put it on .t files. The translators will translate text from .t file and the tool will integrate the text back in page for every language, in case that the layout of the page has changed the change will be visible to all pages. It also help in case that there are some modifications to original text.

For example:
We have index$en-us.tpp. A tool will parse the file ignoring T++ tokens and extract all text in one file named index.t. The translators will do their job and at midnight when site get synced the tool will integrate translations in page so if we have in index.t file translations for Spanish and French the tool will generate index$es-es.html and index$fr-fr.html using the layout from index$en-us.tpp file so if any change appear to main index it will propagate to other translated indexes without the need of translator to modify by hand the layout of page.

Andrei
Re: Index page translation [message #26480 is a reply to message #26479] Thu, 06 May 2010 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
andrei_natanael wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 08:43

sergeynikitin wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 00:18

I think for all-known project - yes you can remove the overview. But while community leaders and project schetayut that ULTIMATE still not known, it is better to leave these pages in the main index (this is my personal opinion which may not coincide with the majority opinion)

PS
We need more opinions to the discussion.

Sorry for confusion, i don't want to remove Overview from the main index but only duplicated links from it and Overview and Comparison appear twice. Please re-read my previous post.

Another concern i have is about page layout. If one change the layout of one page the change will not propagate to other pages (e.g. translated pages) because the layout is included with every page so Topic++ doesn't help too much here. What if we have one page (for every page) with text in english and a tool which will extract the text from it, put it on .t files. The translators will translate text from .t file and the tool will integrate the text back in page for every language, in case that the layout of the page has changed the change will be visible to all pages. It also help in case that there are some modifications to original text.

For example:
We have index$en-us.tpp. A tool will parse the file ignoring T++ tokens and extract all text in one file named index.t. The translators will do their job and at midnight when site get synced the tool will integrate translations in page so if we have in index.t file translations for Spanish and French the tool will generate index$es-es.html and index$fr-fr.html using the layout from index$en-us.tpp file so if any change appear to main index it will propagate to other translated indexes without the need of translator to modify by hand the layout of page.

Andrei


I agree, good idea... if we agree to maintain the basic page layout. In fact that technique is used in more places in uppweb Smile, so it is easy to use it.

HEY!, two new languages have been added from yesterday:
- romanian thanks to andrei-catalin
- czech thanks to dolik.rce

... it is very easy Smile


Best regards
Iñaki
Re: Index page translation [message #26481 is a reply to message #26480] Thu, 06 May 2010 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andrei_natanael is currently offline  andrei_natanael
Messages: 262
Registered: January 2009
Experienced Member
koldo wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 09:53

andrei_natanael wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 08:43

sergeynikitin wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 00:18

I think for all-known project - yes you can remove the overview. But while community leaders and project schetayut that ULTIMATE still not known, it is better to leave these pages in the main index (this is my personal opinion which may not coincide with the majority opinion)

PS
We need more opinions to the discussion.

Sorry for confusion, i don't want to remove Overview from the main index but only duplicated links from it and Overview and Comparison appear twice. Please re-read my previous post.

Another concern i have is about page layout. If one change the layout of one page the change will not propagate to other pages (e.g. translated pages) because the layout is included with every page so Topic++ doesn't help too much here. What if we have one page (for every page) with text in english and a tool which will extract the text from it, put it on .t files. The translators will translate text from .t file and the tool will integrate the text back in page for every language, in case that the layout of the page has changed the change will be visible to all pages. It also help in case that there are some modifications to original text.

For example:
We have index$en-us.tpp. A tool will parse the file ignoring T++ tokens and extract all text in one file named index.t. The translators will do their job and at midnight when site get synced the tool will integrate translations in page so if we have in index.t file translations for Spanish and French the tool will generate index$es-es.html and index$fr-fr.html using the layout from index$en-us.tpp file so if any change appear to main index it will propagate to other translated indexes without the need of translator to modify by hand the layout of page.

Andrei


I agree, good idea... if we agree to maintain the basic page layout. In fact that technique is used in more places in uppweb Smile, so it is easy to use it.

HEY!, two new languages have been added from yesterday:
- romanian thanks to andrei-catalin
- czech thanks to dolik.rce

... it is very easy Smile


About romanian translations, was me not Andrei Cătălin Wink

Re: Index page translation [message #26483 is a reply to message #26481] Thu, 06 May 2010 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
Quote:

About romanian translations, was me not Andrei Cătălin Wink


Sorry, I did not now who was ndrew2k asn that both andrei where from Romania Rolling Eyes


Best regards
Iñaki
Re: Index page translation [message #26484 is a reply to message #26483] Thu, 06 May 2010 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chickenk is currently offline  chickenk
Messages: 168
Registered: May 2007
Location: Grenoble, France
Experienced Member
Hi all,

I corrected a bit the French index page translation, and I added a few French translations. Not had time to do more.

I provide them here in two forms:
  • a patch in unified diff format (uppweb_fr.diff.gz):
    cd <path_to_uppweb>
       gunzip uppweb_fr.diff.gz
       patch -p0 < uppweb_fr.diff
  • an archive containing the new files and the modified ones (uppweb_fr.tar.gz) in the next post.

regards,
Lionel
Re: Index page translation [message #26485 is a reply to message #26484] Thu, 06 May 2010 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chickenk is currently offline  chickenk
Messages: 168
Registered: May 2007
Location: Grenoble, France
Experienced Member
Here is the archive with plain files.

Regards,
Lionel
Re: Index page translation [message #26487 is a reply to message #26485] Thu, 06 May 2010 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
Très bien. Je vais télécharger ce soir. Smile

Best regards
Iñaki
Re: Index page translation [message #26490 is a reply to message #26479] Thu, 06 May 2010 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
Messages: 1758
Registered: August 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Senior Contributor

andrei_natanael wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 08:43

Another concern i have is about page layout. If one change the layout of one page the change will not propagate to other pages (e.g. translated pages) because the layout is included with every page so Topic++ doesn't help too much here. What if we have one page (for every page) with text in english and a tool which will extract the text from it, put it on .t files. The translators will translate text from .t file and the tool will integrate the text back in page for every language, in case that the layout of the page has changed the change will be visible to all pages. It also help in case that there are some modifications to original text.

For example:
We have index$en-us.tpp. A tool will parse the file ignoring T++ tokens and extract all text in one file named index.t. The translators will do their job and at midnight when site get synced the tool will integrate translations in page so if we have in index.t file translations for Spanish and French the tool will generate index$es-es.html and index$fr-fr.html using the layout from index$en-us.tpp file so if any change appear to main index it will propagate to other translated indexes without the need of translator to modify by hand the layout of page.

Andrei

Hi,
I agree that having single layout would be very helpful. But I'm not sure if translating it with .t files is the best option as it would force translators to switch often between the .tpp and .t to see the context and that would be not very comfortable.

Better approach IMHO would be to change the T++ system a bit. The main idea would be having a single .tpp file for each topic and a DropList, to select which language should be displayed/edited. I believe that this would also help in most other situations. In 99% of cases, the documentation for each language is almost identical, with same layout, so even regular users would benefit from this solution. The underlaying implementation could be .t file and some QTF equivalent of t_ macro in .tpp that would be evaluated when interpreting the QTF. This solution would be a bit more difficult to implement and would have impact on whole U++, not just uppweb. Also care about backward compatibility would have to be taken.

What do you think?

Honza
Re: Index page translation [message #26497 is a reply to message #26490] Thu, 06 May 2010 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
Hello Honza - Andrei

Perhaps this would have to be in another post, but think about this:

U++ lets application internationalization of strings using t_("") macros (and other things Smile).

However QTF has text messages inside, but it does not let direct internationalization. Indirectly you can, doing like this:

String txt = String("[2 ") + Format(t_("Last edit by %s on %s"), user, date) + ".]"

manually separating text from qtf format.

This can be done in code, but not in T++.

Two proposals:

1. To have an internationalized qtf, so that qtf strings under certain macro could be parsed, strings automatically got and put in some kind of .t file

2. T++ files could be automatically considered as international, so that .tpp file could have the layout and other file could have the translated messages.

3. Perhaps 1. .t files and 2. translated messages file could have the same format

4. These would match with Honza proposal too.

¿?


Best regards
Iñaki
Re: Index page translation [message #26509 is a reply to message #26487] Fri, 07 May 2010 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chickenk is currently offline  chickenk
Messages: 168
Registered: May 2007
Location: Grenoble, France
Experienced Member
Hi koldo,

thanks for uploading the french pages. But it seems you forgot to add the .tppi files, and as a result, some pages are still shown in English... I believe the following are missing :

www.tpp/comparison$fr-fr.tppi
www.tpp/reference$fr-fr.tppi
www.tpp/examples$fr-fr.tppi

Can you have a look ?

Thanks a lot,
Lionel
Re: Index page translation [message #26510 is a reply to message #26509] Fri, 07 May 2010 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3045
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
chickenk wrote on Fri, 07 May 2010 09:33

Hi koldo,

thanks for uploading the french pages. But it seems you forgot to add the .tppi files, and as a result, some pages are still shown in English... I believe the following are missing :

www.tpp/comparison$fr-fr.tppi
www.tpp/reference$fr-fr.tppi
www.tpp/examples$fr-fr.tppi

Can you have a look ?

Thanks a lot,
Lionel

Hello Chickenk

I think that the problem was in the original index$fr-fr.tpp file. Some links go to french version but others to english version.

I will relink all to available french versions.


Best regards
Iñaki
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