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Home » Community » Coffee corner » Commercial applications developed with U++
Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #28971] Wed, 29 September 2010 18:00 Go to next message
281264 is currently offline  281264
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Hi,

All of us know, without a doubt, that U++ is a superb tool. But how many commercial applications do you know developed with U++? Do you know any company that is currently using U++ as a developing tool?

I might me wrong, but my feeling is that U++ needs to expand itself and be more popular; I think that U++ scope is rather limited. Again, that is my feeling and I wish I was wrong.

What do you think?

Best wishes,

Javier
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #28978 is a reply to message #28971] Thu, 30 September 2010 00:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andrei_natanael is currently offline  andrei_natanael
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Hello Javier,

I know for sure that Ultimate Development s.r.o is using U++ Razz
And maybe other too.

Andrei
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #28980 is a reply to message #28978] Thu, 30 September 2010 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peek is currently offline  peek
Messages: 13
Registered: March 2010
Promising Member
In my case U++ is used in an important international company for taking decisions about multimillion equipment.

Before it there were some supercomplex Excel spreadsheets.

Now there is instead:
- a professional looking program
- fast (main process in 1 second instead of in twenty...)
- reliable (Excel sheets where so big that crashed many times)
- much more secure to be used externally
- easier to maintain with cleaner code
- with smaller code size Shocked
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #28986 is a reply to message #28980] Thu, 30 September 2010 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Here are some links to commercial apps I am aware about:

http://www.ederedv.at/solutions/gks.html
http://www.awsopenwind.org/downloads/screenshots

these are applications sold on market. I guess some other companies use U++ to develop in-house software (I work for one now).
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29059 is a reply to message #28986] Sun, 03 October 2010 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
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Some time ago I ran into this: http://www.yeohhs.com/myuppedoc.htm

Honza
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29065 is a reply to message #29059] Mon, 04 October 2010 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
281264 is currently offline  281264
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We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?

IMO, there isn’t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.

So, Mirek et al., what do you think?

Best wishes,

Javier
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29067 is a reply to message #29065] Mon, 04 October 2010 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dolik.rce is currently offline  dolik.rce
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281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 11:35

We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?

IMO, there isn’t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.

So, Mirek et al., what do you think?

Best wishes,

Javier



The impact is small if you judge it by the number of commercial apps. But for most of U++ programmers the impact on their work is huge.

AFAIK the main target for U++ was originally Mirek Smile Today I would say the target group are programmers who are not afraid to use modern toolkit even if it has steep learning curve and it is not considered exactly mainstream. It was already discussed here on the forum how many (or actually little) developers is using it now, but a lot of those is literally addicted and ready to support and enhance the framework as much as they can.

I don't believe U++ will cease to exist anytime soon. As I said there is a small but good team of people who love it and who have great codebase written in U++. It already survives more than 10 years. And as far as I can tell, the amount of users is actually accelerating lately (no proof, just my feeling, based on forum registration counts).

Best regards,
Honza
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29070 is a reply to message #29067] Mon, 04 October 2010 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
281264 is currently offline  281264
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Honza,

I agree with you. As a new comer I assert that U++ is absolutely great. Being positive (i.e. making constructive criticism) U++ lacks of a detailed/ordered/comprehensive "book of reference", a kind of book such as: "U++ from the ground up"or something like that; it would boost U++ a lot. For example, there are plenty of global functions not described any place: it is a pain to find out what are they for.

Anyway, long live U++.

Best wishes,

Javier

Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29072 is a reply to message #29065] Mon, 04 October 2010 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tojocky is currently offline  tojocky
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Javier,

I do not agree with you.
U++ project have lack of clear ToDo list(documentation, new functionality, etc). This lack exists because everybody have his work. We contribute to U++ only when we have free time, correcting the existing packages or create new packages and decide to share our work to others.

Ion.

281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 12:35

We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?

IMO, there isn�t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.

So, Mirek et al., what do you think?

Best wishes,

Javier


[Updated on: Mon, 04 October 2010 14:52]

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Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29073 is a reply to message #29072] Mon, 04 October 2010 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cbpporter is currently offline  cbpporter
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I agree with a lot of the things stated above.

But, not including all the excellent contributions from the community, I have the feeling that development from the core team has started slowing down or is about to slow down. and rightfully so: U++ seems to me like nearing completion. There are very few new features that one can add and every project like this has a point where additional features start to serve specific needs better than general needs. Sure, one could improve the debugger, especially for Linux, but that won't change U++. It is just a convenience. Sure, more documentation could be written, but what we have is more than enough and new documentation will probably be written by volunteers. There are some bugs here and there, but no show stoppers.

While I could thing of a few more features that could improve U++, I really don't need any one of them personally. U++ is more than good enough and right now I have a balanced relation with it, where it does what I need without me tweaking it. I think that there are other people that feel like this.

But it would be interesting to see what Mirek things? Are we just about done? Or in phase of small incremental improvements? Or do you have some huge plans for the near future? JPEG2000 Smile?
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29075 is a reply to message #29073] Mon, 04 October 2010 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
281264 is currently offline  281264
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cbpporter: Perhaps from a technical stand point you might be right, but till U++ reaches the popularity of, for example, Eclipse, then –IMHO- the U++ mission is unaccomplished.

Yessss…., I am rambling, you know… Only the U++ creators/developers can actually say where they desire U++ to be headed to…

And Ion, implicitly you agree with. I never mentioned the reasons, just the facts.

Best wishes to all of you.

Javier
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29077 is a reply to message #29065] Mon, 04 October 2010 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
forlano is currently offline  forlano
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281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 11:35

We can see the limited actual impact of U++; in view of this, a table a question to the U++ creators/developers: what is the strategy behind U++? What has been U++ developed for?


Hello,

It was developed for very practical purpose and clear target. Here you can see commercial applications
http://ultimatepp.org/www$uppweb$apps$en-us.html
developed by their team leaders. At that time for them was better to build a new tool and library instead to use the existing ones.

Quote:


IMO, there isn’t a clear target. Perhaps it is just to provide a free superb programming tool, which allows creating commercial applications without LGPL related restrictions. But unless the popularity of U++ increases, U++ is doomed not to survive very long.



At some moment they decided to make public their work and make a great gift to us. With it I did a commercial application
http://www.vegachess.com/tl/index.php/Home_page_English.html
that is one of best in its field and the only able to run in linux and windows. I started as a C++ beginner and I was helped by the forum.

Upp has everything I need. The community is superb and add new stuff when one face new problem and solve it with Upp.
I do not share your warry.

I suppose other users/developers, as me, use it because with Upp their real work is easier and faster than other tools around.
For me was easy to find this site when I was looking for a library to realize my needs. If other people miss this chance it's a pity fot them.
If some years ago I had chosen the most popular widget library now I was somewhere else. Popularity itself is not a value.

Luigi


[Updated on: Mon, 04 October 2010 16:45]

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Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29082 is a reply to message #29073] Mon, 04 October 2010 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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cbpporter wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 09:05


But it would be interesting to see what Mirek things? Are we just about done? Or in phase of small incremental improvements? Or do you have some huge plans for the near future? JPEG2000 Smile?


Personally, I now feel like the core library is where I always wanted it to be - this was completed with Painter and Draw / host GUI separation.

It would be interesting to move either into Android or into web development. The only problem is that I do not have any (paid) projects there - to tell the truth, U++ development was always the side-effect of developing something for money. (OK, Painter was mostly for my personal satisfaction, but I have clearly seen I will need it in future - and today I do).

OTOH, at least web development can be contributed. Android would require substantial effort on my side, but it is sooo tempting...

And obviously, then there is maintainance. Right today I have spent a lot of hours fixing XML whitespace mess... Smile
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29084 is a reply to message #29075] Mon, 04 October 2010 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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281264 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 10:19

cbpporter: Perhaps from a technical stand point you might be right, but till U++ reaches the popularity of, for example, Eclipse, then –IMHO- the U++ mission is unaccomplished.



Frankly, 5 years ago I would care. I suspect U++ is the best in technical terms in many areas and it is pity all these fancy ideas have so little adoption (did you e.g. known that U++ memory allocator spends on average much less than single byte per allocated block to store book-keeping information? Smile

Anyway, today all I care is that I can do my job with U++. Going up on popularity ladder is so hard that personally I am exhausted trying Smile

OTOH, it seems like new smart people like Koldo are slowly energizing the whole process and U++ is starting to grow again. Which is perfect situation for me, as I can concentrate on things I can do best (that would be core development)... Smile
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29091 is a reply to message #29084] Mon, 04 October 2010 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mdelfede is currently offline  mdelfede
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When I first met U++ I was scared about the way things were done, and also because of theide appearance.... and I lost almost 1 year before going back to it, after trying some other libraries and IDEs.

Now I think it's the best toolkit around. Up to now, the only (really few) things I was missing I could easily develop by myself with help of this forum which is, IMHO, one of the best support forums I ever met.

So, what to say ? Popularity of U++ ? Well, pity for people that don't use it Smile

Max
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #29093 is a reply to message #29091] Mon, 04 October 2010 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cbpporter is currently offline  cbpporter
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Well, Eclipse may be popular, but it is not very good for C++. It is slow, has way to many options, C++ debugging is not the greatest fan of templates the code analyzer breaks routinely when using more fancy stuff or just full on macros or huge projects. Waiting 10 seconds after a "." or a "->" (worst case scenario) is not fun. Luckily, these case are rare enough that they are just a minor annoyance. At its best, it is way better than TheIDE. On average, it seems slightly worse for C++ and better for C, not counting TheIDE learning curve. For Java on the other hand it is awesome.
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32122 is a reply to message #29093] Tue, 26 April 2011 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance is currently offline  Lance
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Quote:


When I first met U++ I was scared about the way things were done, and also because of theide appearance.... and I lost almost 1 year before going back to it, after trying some other libraries and IDEs.

Now I think it's the best toolkit around. Up to now, the only (really few) things I was missing I could easily develop by myself with help of this forum which is, IMHO, one of the best support forums I ever met.

So, what to say ? Popularity of U++ ? Well, pity for people that don't use it Smile

Max



I also registered in 2007 (the year you registered), but I wasted some more years! Completely agree with you. For c++ programmers, U++ library IS the best. IDE-wise, TheIDE might be less powerful than VC++ etc(which has the best code completion), but it's already very usable and is getting better by week (if not by day). With the little attention and resource U++ received, it's a miracle.

Question is: why is U++ not getting enough attention and users?
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32127 is a reply to message #32122] Tue, 26 April 2011 05:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nlneilson is currently offline  nlneilson
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U++ is a great project.

With U++ the learning curve may be too steep to justify getting into because of the $$ per hour for a developer/s a Company would need to pay just to get proficient, including "unlearning" what they may be used to.

I started tinkering more than 30 years ago with Dos batch files and then a Borland C++ IDE.

Later Python with PyScripter, C++ with MSVC and Java with Eclipse and tinkered with several others
and years in between with no programming.

If it was not for the very good help on this forum it would not have been a viable option a year ago.
The Help documentation that comes with U++/theIDE is much better
now but still lacks an alphabetical listing of simple one line example code that a copy/paste to make something work with the functions in U++.
Java is lacking in this also but with the reallybigindex and a Google search an answer can usually be found in a short time. U++ is not that popular (yet) so a search is not that productive for things specific to U++.

Python has the best help IMO.

As mentioned U++ is great and the Help is much improved.
To be viable for many Companies to consider more documentation would be a big plus.

Neil
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32129 is a reply to message #32127] Tue, 26 April 2011 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
forlano is currently offline  forlano
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nlneilson wrote on Tue, 26 April 2011 05:21


With U++ the learning curve may be too steep to justify getting into because of the $$ per hour for a developer/s a Company would need to pay just to get proficient, including "unlearning" what they may be used to.



Hello,

in Upp the learning "problem" occurs only at the very beginning. Then everything become easier. This is due to the unconventional (but better) way in which the things are organized included the Theide.
In this case a series of very short videotutorials would make the user more confident and let him to see the whole stuff at once.
For example the subjects could be:
1) How to install and compile (showing how to install, set the compiler and compile the helloworld package);
2) Create a package (the simply hello world prompt project is enough)
3) Using the Layout (again a silly package with a button that open a prompt window)
4) Using the image (create an .iml image and put it somewhere on the previous package)
5) adding a menu toolbar (showing how to work with Fileselect
6) adding some other widget on the same package

At this point one has familiarized with the unconventional stuff and is ready to use C++ and the other libraries U++ offers.
When I landed here the step 3 costed me many hours because I didn't found a button to let appear the lay designer.
The documentation present today is excellent, nevertheless few short videos I think would help a lot.

Luigi
Re: Commercial applications developed with U++ [message #32131 is a reply to message #32129] Tue, 26 April 2011 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jerson is currently offline  jerson
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Quote:

few short videos I think would help a lot

I support Luigi on this. My experience with Linux dev is zero and any kind of help would be a great boost to me. With that in mind, the best way forward in Upp+Linux would be a short video explaining what it takes.
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