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Home » Community » Ultimate++ Webs: Functioning, Layout , Design, Features and Structure of these forums, homepage etc. » other languages corner in the forum ?
other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31416] Tue, 01 March 2011 12:22 Go to next message
jibe is currently offline  jibe
Messages: 294
Registered: February 2007
Location: France
Experienced Member
Hello,

What about an "other languages corner" in the forum ? I think that a lot of non native english speakers would appreciate a place to meet and share their U++ experience with people of the same language !
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31442 is a reply to message #31416] Wed, 02 March 2011 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Novo is currently offline  Novo
Messages: 893
Registered: December 2006
Experienced Contributor
Let's keep UPP international.

Regards,
Novo
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31443 is a reply to message #31442] Wed, 02 March 2011 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jerson is currently offline  jerson
Messages: 200
Registered: June 2010
Location: Bombay, India
Experienced Member

A simple way to go multilingual is the Google translator. I've seen this on some other fora. The poster / reader who does not speak / write English could use these ready made tools to their advantage.

Cheers
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31446 is a reply to message #31416] Thu, 03 March 2011 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jibe is currently offline  jibe
Messages: 294
Registered: February 2007
Location: France
Experienced Member
Hi,

Here are english speaker's opinions ! Laughing

Yes, it's true that there is some disadvantages to do this, and somehow it seems not compatible with the will to be international. On another way, to be multilangual shows the will to welcome non english speakers...

Yes, Google translate can be a way. If you want to keep only english language and that non-english speakers use google translate, put a link and advertise it well : a lot of people don't think to use it !

But I don't like Google translate. If you know 2 languages, try to use it : I'm sure that you will prefer to read the source text rather than the translation !

It's amazing to see how google translate gave me the proof that it's very bad ! I gave it this french text :
Quote:

Un moyen simple d'être multilingue est d'utiliser le traducteur de Google. J'ai vu ça sur d'autres forums. Le posteur/lecteur qui ne parle/n'écrit pas l'anglais pourrait avantageusement utiliser cet outil tout prêt.

That is what said jerson, translated by myself in french. Here is what Google translates :
Quote:

A simple way to be multilingual is to use the Google translator. I saw this on other forums. The poster / reader who does not speak / write English may not be advantageous to use this tool ready.

Google translator says himself that it's not advantageaous to use it Laughing
Imagine now that I don't understand at all english (it's the case of a lot of French people, even C++ programmers !) : I will post this translation without knowing that I'm saying the contrary of what I think !!!

No, believe me : non english speakers will not use this forum if they are obliged to read/write in english.

Take it another way : go to some french forum, ie developpez.com and try to read some thread (ie this one Wink ).

Now, suppose that I'll make a forum to help french people using Ultimate++. Will you help me on this forum, and participate using Google translate ?
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31448 is a reply to message #31416] Thu, 03 March 2011 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mr_ped is currently offline  mr_ped
Messages: 802
Registered: November 2005
Location: Czech Republic - Praha
Experienced Contributor

Well, part of learning C++ properly is to learn English too IMO.

It's not like we will punish somebody who does not want to learn English. Most of people here will support people in their native language, but to be active UPP community member and to help with development, it is required to speak English at least a bit. You don't have to be perfect (some UPP devs obviously aren't Very Happy ), but with other languages there's no real future to help with UPP development.

If you want just to use UPP as an APP developer, the need for English is much weaker (of course if you do understand the UPP API itself and don't need docs too much), so I can imagine being UPP app developer without English, it's ok and possible (the framework itself does focus on multilingual support a lot). It will be just more difficult to get support.

About corner in this forum... My opinion is hardly relevant, and I have difficult time to form some. I have seen already some people posting here trough translators (in very bad English), and yet most of the time we were able to help them, so I'm slightly in favor of English only official forum. Then again, just check my very first sentence of this post, and it's obvious I'm biased. Very Happy

edit:
and to answer yours "Will you help me on this forum, and participate using Google translate ?":
From me basically no, only in exceptional cases.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 March 2011 10:07]

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Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31450 is a reply to message #31448] Thu, 03 March 2011 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jibe is currently offline  jibe
Messages: 294
Registered: February 2007
Location: France
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mr_ped wrote on Thu, 03 March 2011 10:06

Well, part of learning C++ properly is to learn English too IMO.

I totally agree with you about that. But we must consider that there is a lot of good documents in some other languages. In France, a lot of good developpers don't understand english, and they find all documentation and support in french !

If there is no french documentation and french forum for U++, they will never use it, even never know that it exists !

I know several projects who have other languages forums. Often, the members of the project don't go to those forums : it's only the language speakers helping each other.

The only drawback is that it divides the community. It is a choice:
- To be a community united by a single language with fewer members,
or
- More members in separate linguistic communities...


... And it's not me to decide ! I was just making a suggestion that seemed interresting to me !

[Updated on: Thu, 03 March 2011 23:48]

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Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31452 is a reply to message #31446] Fri, 04 March 2011 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Novo is currently offline  Novo
Messages: 893
Registered: December 2006
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jibe wrote on Thu, 03 March 2011 03:41


Here are english speaker's opinions !


In my case English is not my native language. Smile My second foreign language is German. Smile

Documentation seems to be already translated to French

UPP community is not big. Let's not make it smaller.


Regards,
Novo
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31453 is a reply to message #31452] Fri, 04 March 2011 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jibe is currently offline  jibe
Messages: 294
Registered: February 2007
Location: France
Experienced Member
Hello,

Novo wrote on Fri, 04 March 2011 06:49

In my case English is not my native language. Smile My second foreign language is German. Smile Smile


What I meant is just that somebody speaking english (as native or foreign language), and more somebody speaking several languages has difficulties to understand the difficulties of somebody who doesn't understand english.

When I guess that Google translate makes a mistake, I read the source language and understand. But it's even difficult to guess that there is a mistake if you don't know the source language...

Novo wrote on Fri, 04 March 2011 06:49

Documentation seems to be already translated to French

A very small part only... But it shows the will to consider non english speakers Smile
I'm thinking how I could find some time to help for french translation, as I think that it's important.

Novo wrote on Fri, 04 March 2011 06:49

UPP community is not big. Let's not make it smaller.

Laughing It is to make it bigger, growing it with other languages speakers, that I made this suggestion ! Wink

But I understand what you mean. If you are afraid to divide the community, don't open those forums. I'm just trying to make you understand my own opinion Wink
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31455 is a reply to message #31452] Fri, 04 March 2011 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
Messages: 3046
Registered: August 2008
Ultimate Member
Buff, a question hard to answer.

Quote:

UPP community is not big. Let's not make it smaller.
I agree.

But this is also true
Quote:

In France, a lot of good developers don't understand English,
. It happens the same in the country were I live.

It seems in important countries more people than in smaller ones does not know well a second language (in UK or USA for example this is not so important Smile).

IMHO it could be interesting to add in Forum Newbie corners for other languages, if there would be people in Forum that would support them. I do not consider to open other languages areas for subjects out of just answering the first questions when beginning with U++.



Best regards
Iñaki
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #31474 is a reply to message #31455] Sat, 05 March 2011 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jibe is currently offline  jibe
Messages: 294
Registered: February 2007
Location: France
Experienced Member
Hi,

koldo wrote on Fri, 04 March 2011 09:06

IMHO it could be interesting to add in Forum Newbie corners for other languages, if there would be people in Forum that would support them. I do not consider to open other languages areas for subjects out of just answering the first questions when beginning with U++.


Yes, I think that it's important for newbies, and that it's no more for deeper questions. Those who have deep questions will surely prefer to go to english forum even if they have difficulties with the language, because they will try to discuss with the whole community, not only few people speaking their language.

IMHO, newbie corners for other languages will collect people who don't use U++ yet. Some will always stay there, but some others will come to english forum once they undestood how to work with U++. So, it will enlarge the community Wink
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #32318 is a reply to message #31455] Sun, 08 May 2011 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nlneilson is currently offline  nlneilson
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Contributor
A user could just get used to using a translator, Google's or there may be others specific to a users language.

Neil
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #32319 is a reply to message #32318] Mon, 09 May 2011 00:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Didier is currently offline  Didier
Messages: 489
Registered: November 2008
Location: France
Senior Member
Salut Jibe !

I think english is perfect for the forum:

People developing SW often have to google around searching for infos about libs or whatever: it is most often in english. And when it isn't the traduction is often not very good or at least not very accurate.

Besides, one other problem is if there are specific language sections in the forum, and the UPP experts can't read these questions .... then who will answer them ???

The persons that regularly post messages are a small number, so if they go in another language than english ( assuming they could ) then I guess most of the audience would get locked out.

My personal feeling is that for a good SW developer : english is a must have.

Didier
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #32339 is a reply to message #31416] Tue, 10 May 2011 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jibe is currently offline  jibe
Messages: 294
Registered: February 2007
Location: France
Experienced Member
Salut Didier,

Si même les français sont contre moi... Laughing (if even French people are against me...)

Well, I understand and agree what you say. Just consider what I told in my last post : I don't think that we will ask our questions in the french forum if there is one. Only french speakers having difficulties with english will go there, and it will enlarge the community.

Who will answer them ? Us ! I think that you will go there and read. For me, I will do. And if some question has no answer, we can ask it in english in the main forums, then translate the answer(s) in the french forum. A little work for us, but the pleasure to help in the same time the community to grow and compatriots to discover U++ Wink

nlneilson wrote on Sun, 08 May 2011 19:25

A user could just get used to using a translator, Google's or there may be others specific to a users language.

Do you really think that it's possible to understand each other using Google Translator ? For me, when I find some translation of this kind, I don't read and look for the text in english...
Re: other languages corner in the forum ? [message #32442 is a reply to message #32339] Wed, 18 May 2011 04:40 Go to previous message
Novo is currently offline  Novo
Messages: 893
Registered: December 2006
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jibe wrote on Tue, 10 May 2011 03:22

Do you really think that it's possible to understand each other using Google Translator ? For me, when I find some translation of this kind, I don't read and look for the text in english...


For those who has problems with English I made a simple WordNet 3 browser. Smile


Regards,
Novo
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