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Home » Developing U++ » U++ Developers corner » What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++?
What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10696] Mon, 23 July 2007 10:38 Go to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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Because in other sections (e.g our coffee corner) mentioned, I feel, maybe "a professional" thread at some time will be needed anyway. So,... what would be needed/recommended for multimedia?
(kind of libraries roadmap?)

[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2007 10:40]

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10698 is a reply to message #10696] Mon, 23 July 2007 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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First recommendation was:
waxblood wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 07:08

Maybe Ogre? http://www.ogre3d.org/

It focuses on having a well-designed object-oriented model with extensive documentation, rather than mere number of features. It will become Blender real-time rendering engine, too.

David



And my question was: Does any video player use ogre3d?
In fact, I understand multimedia support something like "ffmpeg" or "theora" libraries, something like audio-video streams and codecs. Other opinions?

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10699 is a reply to message #10696] Mon, 23 July 2007 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waxblood is currently offline  waxblood
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Quote:

waxblood wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 07:08
Quote:


Maybe Ogre? http://www.ogre3d.org/

It focuses on having a well-designed object-oriented model with extensive documentation, rather than mere number of features. It will become Blender real-time rendering engine, too.


David



fudadmin wrote
Quote:

Does any video player use ogre3d?





When I mentioned Ogre3D I was just referring to a 3D engine...

I've done a little research and I've found there are video plugins for Ogre, though.
see http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/VideoPlugin#Directshow_ Plugin_.28Win32.29

Too bad FFmpeg Plugin is not supported or updated.

Don't know much about legal stuff, but Theora plugin author in this thread warns about using patented codecs

http://www.wreckedgames.com/forum/index.php?topic=352.0

pjcast wrote
Quote:

If your app provides playback of patented/non-free codecs, you will have to pay royalties.


Anyway, if Blender is going to adopt Ogre, I presume there will be more support for video stuff

David

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10700 is a reply to message #10699] Mon, 23 July 2007 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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But, would you recommend ogre3d if someone want to write a video player (in fact I really wish to have one written in U++ by someone, because on linux, all video player plugins are **** (put your favourite bad word) (in fact all qt, wxw software and firefox Smile but that's a separate topic) ) )?

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10701 is a reply to message #10700] Mon, 23 July 2007 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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1. Why ogre3d is not part of?==> "Xiph.Org is a collection of open source, multimedia-related projects."
http://xiph.org/about/
2. Are there any alternatives to xiph.org projects?

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10702 is a reply to message #10701] Mon, 23 July 2007 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnevans77 is currently offline  johnevans77
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I am new and inexperienced.

But i am hoping that whatever we choose, it should be multiplatform dan mature enought.

JE

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10703 is a reply to message #10700] Mon, 23 July 2007 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waxblood is currently offline  waxblood
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fudadmin wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 11:56

But, would you recommend ogre3d if someone want to write a video player




Let's say I would definitely recommend Ogre3D to someone willing to develop visual (3D) effects for some audio player. 2D filters are also good. Ogre3D is just a 3D engine, so in fact I was just proposing it as a visualization library for 3D stuff (GLCtrl doesn't offer many 3D magics...). I've learned just today it can be used to display videos in Windows and only Theora in Linux (but I can't say how well).



Anyway, the future is 3D. At some point, U++ will target some 3D rendering library, and we will have opengl boxes for buttons.
Besides, graphics cards just nowadays are *very* powerful, so even if using HW accelerated functions you don't have the absolute precision of a software library like AGG now, maybe you will have it in the near future.




Quote:


1. Why ogre3d is not part of?==> "Xiph.Org is a collection of open source, multimedia-related projects."
http://xiph.org/about/


it seems there they talk only about Ogg Vorbis/Theora stuff... not 3D for sure.


David

[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2007 18:33]

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10704 is a reply to message #10703] Mon, 23 July 2007 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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waxblood wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 17:15


...
Anyway, the future is 3D. At some point, U++ will target some 3D rendering library, and we will have opengl boxes for buttons.
...
David

is 3D rendering==multimedia?

edit:
Does windows media player deal with 3D buttons?
Edit2:
Is windows media player main purpose to deal with 3D buttons?

[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2007 18:58]

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10706 is a reply to message #10704] Mon, 23 July 2007 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waxblood is currently offline  waxblood
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fudadmin wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 18:48

waxblood wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 17:15


...
Anyway, the future is 3D. At some point, U++ will target some 3D rendering library, and we will have opengl boxes for buttons.
...
David

is 3D rendering==multimedia?

edit:
Does windows media player deal with 3D buttons?
Edit2:
Is windows media player main purpose to deal with 3D buttons?




well, strictly speaking, obviously not, but I was thinking about this (you wanted a fine video player for Linux, didn't you?):

http://elisa.fluendo.com/


and, for sure, this is not Windows Media Player, it's what it SHOULD be Wink


3D means also translucency effects, 2d filters, etc... all kind of things you normally find in Flash sites with fancy video players... it's just a way to 'incorporate' multimedia while taking advantage of hardware accelerated graphics.
If on Linux forums discussion about Compiz/Beryl is all the rage there must be some some reason.

David

[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2007 23:34]

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10707 is a reply to message #10706] Mon, 23 July 2007 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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what I wanted to avoid - gstreamer... Smile not very likable (mildly speaking) by me (and I think by others) g which...
and also from wikipedia:
Quote:


GStreamer has been criticized by KDE developers for not offering a stable ABI that is guaranteed to be maintained for at least five years after KDE4 is released, which makes it unsuitable as the standard multimedia framework in KDE4 and could prevent its inclusion in the Linux Standard Base. This problem eventually led to the development of Phonon, a simplified multimedia framework for KDE4, which would provide wrappers for other multimedia frameworks, including GStreamer.[5]



Alternatives to GStreamer?
What includes Phonon?

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10708 is a reply to message #10707] Tue, 24 July 2007 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fudadmin is currently offline  fudadmin
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The more I read about video players, the more I'm convinced that FFmpeg library sits underneath nearly all of the best of them.
I just can't find whether GStreamer includes an alternative to FFmeg or FFmpeg itself?

Some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFmpeg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GStreamer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xine

But is it worth going below engines (GStreamer, Xine or alternatives ???) level?
Edit: Or just to use them as backends and don't try too much?

[Updated on: Tue, 24 July 2007 02:38]

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10709 is a reply to message #10708] Tue, 24 July 2007 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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One more alternative for multimedia - NMM:
http://www.networkmultimedia.org/Docs/index.html
Edit:
and some good read about KDE Phonon vs GStreamer:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/24608/
codecs comparison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs
media players comparison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_media_players

[Updated on: Tue, 24 July 2007 02:34]

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10710 is a reply to message #10709] Tue, 24 July 2007 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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As a simple user, I must say I'm satisfied with Kaffeine with xine backend. It's rare to find some video not handled correctly.

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10712 is a reply to message #10710] Tue, 24 July 2007 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zardos is currently offline  Zardos
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I also think xine as a "multimedia" back end would be good.

Mplayer is very complete, too. It nearly plays all kind of videos without problems.

Mplayer has the advantage to be available on windows, too. As far as I know xine is unix, only. Or am I'm wrong?

But for both of them is the license problem: GPL...

Other - more low level libraries like ffmpeg have a less restrictive license like: LGPL. But if these kind of libraries would be used much more work would be necessary to really support most commonly used codecs and containers. Basically it would mean building something like xine with a more commercial friendly license. => Probably out of the focus of U++ and simply too much work.

- Ralf

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10714 is a reply to message #10712] Tue, 24 July 2007 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Zardos wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 09:21


...
xine as a "multimedia" back end would be good.
...
As far as I know xine is unix, only.
...


It looks then that xine is "no go" for cross-platform toolkits and
1. The only alternative as backend is GStreamer... (disadvantage - licence and quality)
2. the second alternative would be to go below...
(disadvantage - time and work)
3. something else NMM...

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10715 is a reply to message #10714] Tue, 24 July 2007 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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FFMpeg seems to be the best media library. It is used by many apps and codecs (like ffdshow). It handles almost all media streams and it's cross-platfom. I'm trying to use it in UltimatePlayer 2.0. However there is one problem: it dosn't support visual c++ compiler as it uses gcc assembler syntax. So the library must be precompiled both in gcc and visual formats and then attached to the upp. This implicates two next problems There must be a maintainer who take care of building the library and the size of upp package as a whole.
Another problem is upp's c++ wrapper. It is definetly a must if we're trying to encourage others to use it.
That's my opinion.

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Re: What libraries would be needed/recommended for multimedia in U++? [message #10716 is a reply to message #10715] Tue, 24 July 2007 12:00 Go to previous message
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unodgs wrote on Tue, 24 July 2007 10:37

FFMpeg seems to be the best media library. It is used by many apps and codecs (like ffdshow). It handles almost all media streams and it's cross-platfom. I'm trying to use it in UltimatePlayer 2.0. However there is one problem: it dosn't support visual c++ compiler as it uses gcc assembler syntax. So the library must be precompiled both in gcc and visual formats and then attached to the upp. This implicates two next problems There must be a maintainer who take care of building the library and the size of upp package as a whole.
Another problem is upp's c++ wrapper. It is definetly a must if we're trying to encourage others to use it.
That's my opinion.



Then we are several weeks away from UStreamer, aren't we Smile ?

P.S. I always feel that people around U++ will always go deeper... Smile

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