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Home » Community » Coffee corner » Webtoolkit
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| Re: Webtoolkit [message #14333 is a reply to message #14327] |
Fri, 22 February 2008 17:32   |
Mindtraveller
Messages: 917
Registered: August 2007
Location: Russia, Moscow rgn.
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Experienced Contributor |
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Some time ago I had an idea of making site. Yes, C++ would be very attractive way of making site (at least for me who knows C++ and doesn`t know much of PHP).
The main problem I`ve met was actually not generating answers and parsing html (but that was a problem too). The main thing was supporting a number of browsers. This is very specific web-only thing, which requires strong JS+HTML+CSS experience. So, the thing actually required most was visual style of making site pages which would support different browsers without actually programming these differences. I mean something like theIDE template editor, but for pages (like Macromedia Dreamweaver visual editor?).
Cross-platform. Cross-browser.
[Updated on: Fri, 22 February 2008 17:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Webtoolkit [message #14339 is a reply to message #14336] |
Fri, 22 February 2008 19:58 |
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mirek
Messages: 14257
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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| mr_ped wrote on Fri, 22 February 2008 13:27 |
I'm certainly interested into these things too.
But I'm not sure I would like to see U++ custom web server, I mean I would prefer something well used, robust and powerful, like apache for example.
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Well, the problem there is that not too much is left for apache to do in such case. Of course, if you have mixed content (some pages C++, some static or other code), it has some merit. Otherwise, parsing http requests is quite easy.
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And thinking about some common classes for parsing GET/POST variables (especially to handle the security aspect of these things easily and almost in fool-proof way, so you don't have to think about security checks every time you need some GET variable from user) makes me excited even more.
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Check HttpServer in the Web.
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Maybe all we need is some good tutorial how to set up existing technologies to work together with U++, and couple of simple U++ - like classes for making parsing and HTML output easy.
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All is already there. OTOH, I suspect the idea of HTML expressions is a little bit over the head (tried to repeat SqlExp success there, but HTML seems to be another kind of beast...).
BTW, I seem to be working for internet company now, maybe there will be some new web programming means in U++ soon  (Unfortunately, so far I am working on some backend with PHP frontend, so not direct HTML for now 
Mirek
[Updated on: Fri, 22 February 2008 20:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Webtoolkit [message #14369 is a reply to message #14318] |
Sun, 24 February 2008 02:38 |
mr_ped
Messages: 826
Registered: November 2005
Location: Czech Republic - Praha
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Experienced Contributor |
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"Check The C10K problem document."
Thank you, it gave me lot of new information. Unfortunately it just made me sure I don't want to code my own web server at all.
I would prefer to get all those "handle 10k clients in 200 threads" for granted from somebody else, and focus only on the application itself.
Of course your point about debugging the application directly in TheIDE is correct. So in ideal world ... what about producing an apache (or other powerful web server) module in TheIDE and having the option to quickly to connect it on custom U++ web server with same API? I think it will turn out to be impossible for many many reasons (or possible only in case the new module would use very limited API set, thus making it useless in general), but I'm writing it here to show my way of thinking and what is interesting for me.
Back to topic, I also read something more about WT itself, and I don't need anything like that right now. Maybe one day it will be become very handy, because it may hide all those nasty browser difference from developer. Than again with late efforts of Mozilla, Opera and KHTML/WebKit to conform to W3C standards I don't feel the pressure to worry about browser incompatibilities. (I will reserve my right to ignore hopeless existence of IE .. for me it is dead and I don't care anymore)
I think doing simple HelloWorld.html in C++ is overkill, even with WT. I mean you still have to define some class, some constructor, etc... And I bet if I ever do some web project, it will still consist of many many simple html pages, even if there will be some horrible complex beast hidden inside.
So far I think I should rather look how to mix PHP and C++ in efficient and simple manner, that would suite my taste much more (and hopefully my needs too).
[Updated on: Sun, 24 February 2008 02:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Webtoolkit [message #14373 is a reply to message #14369] |
Sun, 24 February 2008 08:55 |
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mirek
Messages: 14257
Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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| mr_ped wrote on Sat, 23 February 2008 20:38 |
"Check The C10K problem document."
Thank you, it gave me lot of new information. Unfortunately it just made me sure I don't want to code my own web server at all.
I would prefer to get all those "handle 10k clients in 200 threads" for granted from somebody else, and focus only on the application itself.
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Actually, Apache is not much of help here. If you want or need to store or cache state info in memory (and you want if you want to be fast), you will need those threads anyway.
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Of course your point about debugging the application directly in TheIDE is correct. So in ideal world ... what about producing an apache (or other powerful web server) module in TheIDE and having the option to quickly to connect it on custom U++ web server with same API?
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Yep. This is how existing Web infrastructure works, albeit not for Apache (but Win32 ISAPI) - they can run as standalone http server or as ISAPI module, based on commandline parameter. In fact, this part is relatively easy...
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So far I think I should rather look how to mix PHP and C++ in efficient and simple manner, that would suite my taste much more (and hopefully my needs too).
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It is easy to do PHP style programming in C++. After all, HTML is just text and we have String, do not we?
Mirek
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| Re: Webtoolkit [message #14389 is a reply to message #14373] |
Sun, 24 February 2008 22:16 |
cbpporter
Messages: 1427
Registered: September 2007
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Ultimate Contributor |
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It is easy to do PHP style programming in C++. After all, HTML is just text and we have String, do not we?
We do, there's no arguing here . But still, if this becomes a reality, I would like to see more than HTML/text output. A C++ Servlet or "echo" equivalent wouldn't be that great. I would like to see a framework which removes as much of the messy job of browser "programing" as possible. For example, from the myriad of web toolkits that exist, I think that Tapestry 4.x offer a nice balance between high level code, small quantities of glue code, and dynamic HTML that is based on templates which can be created in in a visual editor or fed directly to an online HTML/CSS compatibility checker.
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