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I'm a U newbie [message #24499]

Thu, 21 January 2010 01:24

alendar
Messages: 47
Registered: January 2010
Location: Idaho, USA

Member

I'm trying out Ultimate++ or U++. I'm a little confused that the About box says 1875 and 1824 is the latest version. Is the IDE versioned separately?

I've been angsting between VS 2010 and U++. Will U++ have enough documentation and examples? Will it stay supported? I used VC++ 6.0 a long time ago and enjoyed it immensely, but its definitely not the same product. When it took 5 minutes to open a list of ActiveX objects, I switched back to evaluating U++. Its quick and painless, and hopefully I will be able to put together an attractive GUI.

I love the simplicity so far, and the examples are great. I'm fiddling with the array control and so far so good.

cd7651feeb698f6ac6cec1f6deda5e5b

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24500 is a reply to message #24499]

Thu, 21 January 2010 07:11

andrei_natanael
Messages: 262
Registered: January 2009

Experienced Member

alendar wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 02:24

I'm trying out Ultimate++ or U++. I'm a little confused that the About box says 1875 and 1824 is the latest version. Is the IDE versioned separately?

Isn't used different version for theIDE. I think you looked at "Status & Roadmap" page which says the latest "stable" version which appear on sourceforge(1824), but you've downloaded nightly version which appear on googlecode(currently 1875). I think there aren't any differences between stable and nightly, only that stables appear less often that nightly builds and stables builds get described in Status & Roadmap page to track changes in U++. To confuse you more... currently, at the time i'm writing this U++ is at 1915 revision in svn Razz

.

(IMO) Ultimate++ was initially named but Mirek and others tend to name it U++, because it's short and sounds more like C++.

Quote:

Will U++ have enough documentation and examples? Will it stay supported? I used VC++ 6.0 a long time ago and enjoyed it immensely, but its definitely not the same product. When it took 5 minutes to open a list of ActiveX objects, I switched back to evaluating U++. Its quick and painless, and hopefully I will be able to put together an attractive GUI.

There is documentation and examples but not for every corner of U++. As long as U++ is used by someone you will have it supported. We all want to use updated tools, be sure of that.
AFAIK U++ doesn't support VC++ 6.0, but it support better and newer versions of microsoft compilers (be them distributed with visual studio or sdk).
I don't do ActiveX programming so i cannot answer that.

Quote:

I love the simplicity so far, and the examples are great. I'm fiddling with the array control and so far so good.

I love simplicity too Smile

Andrei

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24501 is a reply to message #24500]

Thu, 21 January 2010 08:15

koldo
Messages: 3432
Registered: August 2008

Senior Veteran

Hello alendar

Just to add to the excellent answer of Andrei Natanael.

Quote:

Will it stay supported?

Of course. We will be here to stay Smile

.

Read the documentation, follow the Forums and if you have any question, you just can test us !.

We are glad to answer.

Best regards
Koldo

Best regards
Iñaki

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24576 is a reply to message #24501]

Mon, 25 January 2010 01:28

alendar
Messages: 47
Registered: January 2010
Location: Idaho, USA

Member

Thanks, guys. I don't have much to add since I'm new. I've always found a noob approach interesting when new people fiddle with my applications, so hope this is of use.

I've figured a few more things out; I've read a lot of the documentation and found it very quick and easy to search through. The MSVC help has fairly difficult to use and takes a bit of memory to open. I like the real-time search of help. It's speed is equivalent to how fast I need a solution which is very nice. It would be cool if it showed snippets of surrounding text in a list format, but it would probably complicate the interface and slow the search. Still, if I don't recognize the topic header on the lefthand list, I do spend time clicking through several invalid items to get to the right one. This time decreases as I start to recognize topics and remember old paths to things I keep forgetting.

I used Qt for a while, but the performance of its GUI objects and its directory list object was extremely slow, and I took it as a sign. Scanning a directory should be fairly quick. I suspect Qt is overly engineered and highly geared towards cross-platform development.

The performance of a simple Array grid is great, and I populated it very quickly with my 70K folder of music files. If I thread it and display a page immediately I should have very snappy performance, which is what I'm looking for.

It's the little things that are winning me over. Having a file display on a single click is great. Alt-O to switch to the header file is nifty. Everything is quick; I never see an hourglass. I just recently tried the preprocessor, and solved a difficult linking issue. I'm sure Visual Studio supports this too(?), but I never got comfortable enough with the tool to stretch out and try things. To me that's the difference right now. VS2010 is so slow, as is 2008 and 2005, that I end up fixating on avoiding any action that will trigger a long background operation.

I noticed I can't comment a selected block. Minor. When I upgrade versions I lose my build methods and any changes I made to the Assembly.

I think I have to use the "When" clause to control whether a debug or release library is linked in, correct? I'll have to fiddle when I go to make a release.

Can I see the output line for the compiler and linker? I like to see what is actually being pushed out.

Trying the abbreviations; I like getting back to using the keyboard for controlling development instead of depending on the GUI. The blitz works. The build is fast, the code is fast.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for the product!

cd7651feeb698f6ac6cec1f6deda5e5b

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24579 is a reply to message #24576]

Mon, 25 January 2010 08:49

mirek
Messages: 14255
Registered: November 2005

Ultimate Member

alendar wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 19:28

It's the little things that are winning me over. Having a file display on a single click is great. Alt-O to switch to the header file is nifty.

There is a couple of more keys to remember Alt-J (jumps to 'definition' - very general, jumps to headers, funcion definitions etc), Alt-I - similar to Alt-O, but based on C++ parsing - swaps definition(s)/declaration, Alt+Left/Right - go back/forward (w.r.t. to latest jumps...).

Quote:

I noticed I can't comment a selected block. Minor. When I upgrade versions I lose my build methods and any changes I made to the Assembly.

You can activate it in Setup/Environment/"{ / * Enclose selection".

Quote:

I think I have to use the "When" clause to control whether a debug or release library is linked in, correct? I'll have to fiddle when I go to make a release.

Just click *left* dropdown arrow where you see (probably) "Debug" and select "Optimal". Or you can use "Build" / "Output mode".

Quote:

Can I see the output line for the compiler and linker? I like to see what is actually being pushed out.

Setup/Verbose

Mirek

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24675 is a reply to message #24579]

Wed, 27 January 2010 02:24

alendar
Messages: 47
Registered: January 2010
Location: Idaho, USA

Member

Very nice. Verbose: I love it! The commenting is slick now that I enabled it. I'm trying the optimal, hopefully it'll start to make sense how it selects between release and debug versions of external libraries.

Having fun with the logging functionality, though I wish it dated the logs like it does the buglog. I made my own Timer class since I wanted something more win32 specific. It looked like TimeStop was POSIX based and may not be as sensitive as QueryPerformanceCounter, which on my computer is coming up as 2.5 million ticks per second. I actually counted. Plus I like the Elapsed to come back in human time and not ticks.

I'm lovin the layout tool; its quick and does what I need without bogging down or being too simple either. This RAD as it should be. Dropping an RTIMING in windows is great, it looks like it calculates average time, which is really nice. The String class is quick, though I'm boggled as to how to upper case or trim a string. Should I register a custom format specifier? My first thought was "S" would make a good one. It fits the tradition of x and X, day and DAY.

I take the documentation comments to heart, by the way. In "About storing configuration" the writer says "...registry functions (we don't like them very much, honestly)...". So I don't use them. The LoadIniFile seems like a nice option, and the least likely to break after enhancements. I am leaning towards the last one listed, RegisterGlobalConfig. I know many parts of my code will want to update their configuration without funneling everything through some central list. We'll see. It looks straight-forward, but I think upgrades will trash the previous configurations unless I come up with a way to maintain versions of the serialized class. I'll experiment; maybe its more sturdy than I think.

Thanks again for the product! I'll send some change through the Funding widget as soon as I can. Its worth paying for. More than VS2010 and its incredible slowness.

I'm running Ultimate++ 1924 on Windows 7 with the VC2010 SDK. It compiled great except for a collision with stdlib on the 64bit abs definition. I renamed the one in core to "abs64". I know, a blatant hack. I apologize.

cd7651feeb698f6ac6cec1f6deda5e5b

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24679 is a reply to message #24675]

Wed, 27 January 2010 09:10

koldo
Messages: 3432
Registered: August 2008

Senior Veteran

Quote:

how to upper case or trim a string

Hello alendar

Try this:

String TrimLeft(const String& str)
String TrimRight(const String& str)
String TrimBoth(const String& str)

String ToLower(const String& s, byte charset = CHARSET_DEFAULT);
String ToUpper(const String& s, byte charset = CHARSET_DEFAULT);

Best regards
Koldo

Best regards
Iñaki

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24681 is a reply to message #24675]

Wed, 27 January 2010 09:23

cbpporter
Messages: 1427
Registered: September 2007

Ultimate Contributor

alendar wrote on Wed, 27 January 2010 03:24

Use it until you understand the was things get compiled and linked, and then deactivate it. Part of the beauty of this system is that it makes you not worry about such details Smile

Quote:

I made my own Timer class since I wanted something more win32 specific. It looked like TimeStop was POSIX based and may not be as sensitive as QueryPerformanceCounter, which on my computer is coming up as 2.5 million ticks per second. I actually counted. Plus I like the Elapsed to come back in human time and not ticks.

Under Windows it is very win32 specific. It used GetTickCount, which does not have the best granularity, but it is standard and good for most practical tasks. Under POSIX it uses gettimeofday. I did not try to see which has better granularity.

Quote:

I'm running Ultimate++ 1924 on Windows 7 with the VC2010 SDK. It compiled great except for a collision with stdlib on the 64bit abs definition. I renamed the one in core to "abs64". I know, a blatant hack. I apologize.

This can probably be fixed officially. But I think most U++ developers have not moved on yet to windows 7.

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24688 is a reply to message #24675]

Wed, 27 January 2010 10:10

mrjt
Messages: 705
Registered: March 2007
Location: London

Contributor

alendar wrote on Wed, 27 January 2010 01:24

I take the documentation comments to heart, by the way. In "About storing configuration" the writer says "...registry functions (we don't like them very much, honestly)...". So I don't use them. The LoadIniFile seems like a nice option, and the least likely to break after enhancements. I am leaning towards the last one listed, RegisterGlobalConfig. I know many parts of my code will want to update their configuration without funneling everything through some central list. We'll see. It looks straight-forward, but I think upgrades will trash the previous configurations unless I come up with a way to maintain versions of the serialized class. I'll experiment; maybe its more sturdy than I think.

This is an issue with Serialization. One solution is to write a version number at the beginning and then branch off it when reading. See Splitter::Serialize for an example of this.

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24690 is a reply to message #24681]

Wed, 27 January 2010 10:32

mirek
Messages: 14255
Registered: November 2005

Ultimate Member

Quote:

This can probably be fixed officially. But I think most U++ developers have not moved on yet to windows 7.

Rather VC2010...

Mirek

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #24701 is a reply to message #24688]

Wed, 27 January 2010 20:01

alendar
Messages: 47
Registered: January 2010
Location: Idaho, USA

Member

mrjt wrote on Wed, 27 January 2010 04:10

alendar wrote on Wed, 27 January 2010 01:24

...I think upgrades will trash the previous configurations unless I come up with a way to maintain versions of the serialized class. ...

This is an issue with Serialization. One solution is to write a version number at the beginning and then branch off it when reading. See Splitter::Serialize for an example of this.

I will check it out, thank you.

cd7651feeb698f6ac6cec1f6deda5e5b

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Re: I'm a U newbie [message #29351 is a reply to message #24690]

Fri, 15 October 2010 21:23

nixnixnix
Messages: 415
Registered: February 2007
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia

Senior Member

Hey Mirek,

Should we be moving up to VC2010? I am currently still on VC2008 with windows 7 SDK.

I would like to be able to debug 64 bit code in Windows as lots of my users take advantage of my 64 bit windows version and when they have problems it is awkward to investigate without 64 bit debugging in windows.

Nick

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