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Re: U++ public image - please read and discuss... [message #1146 is a reply to message #1128]

Tue, 21 February 2006 13:49

gprentice
Messages: 260
Registered: November 2005
Location: New Zealand

Experienced Member

luzr wrote on Tue, 21 February 2006 11:27

Quote:

Yes, simplicity and productivity. But that should be accented, stressed, pressed etc. on the upp.sourceforge.net not only in one article which will be forgotten after a week or so!

Why not. But we definitely need that article. Nobody says it cannot be recycled in www (I have already done that with the Overview).

Quote:

C++ has the potential to be the most productive language in computing history. Its multiparadigm nature allows the effective development of almost any kind of software, from low level driver code to very high level business logic abstractions.

Unfortunately this potential has been left untapped, due to the lack of truly effective libraries, causing C++ evolution to be stuck somewhere between STL-iterator adaptors and smart-pointers. Ultimate++ finally uncovers this potential....

Who after reading this "untapped" simplicity of U++?

I have no problem with improving that info. We have been "developing" frontpage text as community effort for more than month, but there is always a room for improvement. (If I remember well, that "untapped" phrase was suggested by Jan Wilmans and most of us liked it Smile

However, this is too important for any quick fix posted over private message - any change there must go through another community review process.

You are welcome to start new forum topic with this mission.

Mirek

Quote:

- "The structure of the website and navigation is all boasting how ultimate clever we are. People see that childish."

Regarding the above sentence from the original post in this thread - it's good that the UPP website now says that "comparisons are tricky" when comparing U++ to other toolkits, and that you've tried to be fair (I hope this is true). The website also says U++ achieves RAD through "smart and aggressive"
C++. It's fair enough to say this if it's justified but it's open to the "boasting" criticism, though most people seem to think they write smart C++. Maybe "innovative" would be better than "smart".

Regarding the "C++ being most productive language in history ... " paragraphs - they honestly makes me squirm - though I'm not sure how much my opinion's worth. I notice that Bjarne Stroustrup says there are way too few proposals for the C++ library and way too many for the core language.

There are many application domains other than GUI and SQL/databases so U++ is not the answer to the prayers of all C++ programmers. The statements pretty much trash all other C++ libraries, yet there's a ton of brain power and peer reviewing goes into boost libraries. What is so effective about the U++ libraries compared to other C++ libraries? I doubt that many people would agree that C++ evolution is stuck.

In my opinion it would be better to say something like ...

Ultimate++ is a radical and innovative GUI toolkit whose number one priority is programmer productivity. C++ is a great programming language but C++ programmers are sometimes hampered by the lack of effective libraries. U++ libraries enable genuine productivity gains with shorter development times and greatly reduced application source code size. U++ includes a full featured GUI library and an optimised STL replacement (the NTL).

Phrases like "most productive in history" and "U++ finally uncovers this potential" are hype that make me uncomfortable. Until you get to know U++ (and I still don't) it's far from obvious that U++ libraries really are more effective than other libraries (It's certainly a very big claim) and the average person would be very skeptical. Hype will only reinforce this feeling and give the impression that U++ developers are one-eyed zealots.

Now don't go changing the web page just coz I said I didn't like it Smile

. I'm only one opinion and I honestly have no clue about the productivity gains that are claimed as I haven't used U++ anywhere as much as I'd like yet.

Graeme

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