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Re: let's discuss new Draw principles and problems... [message #1024 is a reply to message #1023]

Tue, 14 February 2006 11:54

fudadmin
Messages: 1321
Registered: November 2005
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

Ultimate Contributor
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Let's talk RGBA problem.
What do we need for RGBA exactly? Can we split this RGBA problem into 2 parts:
1 Part. Load, save, convert - format problems and manipulations in memory. (We need functions for them). What else?

2 Part. Display - "pumping" problems? But, AFAIK, 4 bytes is even better than 3 bytes for pumping. And let's say we can forget about hardware acceleration because as your tests show and materials on the net - there's no real advantage of it for 2D.What else?

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Re: let's discuss new Draw principles and problems... [message #1025 is a reply to message #1024]

Tue, 14 February 2006 12:12

mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005

Ultimate Member

- We need RGBA because we need RGBA images. RGBA is simply the most generic format (well, theoretically we could also think about 8 bytes RGBA - 2 bytes per channel).

- From pumping perspective, on modern GPU (by modern I mean anything past 1998) the source format does not matter, as conversions are performed by GPU. However, it makes _huge_ difference for sofware rendering operations. What is even more important, you have to implement rendering just for single format.

- It is true that for rendering itself, HW acceleration does not matter. However, pumping to video memory can be bottleneck for many machines.

Actually, the original idea (valid for last year's plans) was exactly that - do everything in sofware. That was before you have run the tests on your machine, showing amazing 10fps pumping performance (worst case since that was 40fps on unodgs Duron and even that was barely acceptable, many machines are capable of 200+ fps on that test).

Another possible disadvantage of software rendering is that you cannot use it for printer (it would be too slow).

Yet another disadvantage is that software rendering places high(er) load on CPU (means higher overal power consumption - bad for laptops).

I believe that what we are working on now will provide reasonable compromise (default normal rendering, advanced software rendering where needed).

Mirek

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Re: let's discuss new Draw principles and problems... [message #1047 is a reply to message #1002]

Thu, 16 February 2006 08:22

fudadmin
Messages: 1321
Registered: November 2005
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

Ultimate Contributor
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What do you think of CxImage library? Could we use it all or some parts of it? It has free zlib licence.
http://www.codeproject.com/bitmap/cximage.asp

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Re: let's discuss new Draw principles and problems... [message #1049 is a reply to message #1047]

Thu, 16 February 2006 13:43

jadeite
Messages: 42
Registered: January 2006

Member

fudadmin wrote on Thu, 16 February 2006 02:22

What do you think of CxImage library?

I don't know anything about this lib except from what I read in the 1st paragragraph of the codeproject article. Although the 'core' of the lib might be platform independent, the author clearly claims that the lib as a whole is not. The question is, can the platform dependent part be factored out easily by the devs here? If not, is this really the road you plan to take, locking yourself into Windows?

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Re: let's discuss new Draw principles and problems... [message #1050 is a reply to message #1047]

Thu, 16 February 2006 15:01

fudadmin
Messages: 1321
Registered: November 2005
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

Ultimate Contributor
Administrator

I've downloaded the sources of CxImage and AGG. AGG is definetely more useful. And it's more elegant in terms of programming style. IMHO, Myrek should find a niche for AGG in U++...

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Re: let's discuss new Draw principles and problems... [message #1051 is a reply to message #1050]

Thu, 16 February 2006 17:15

mirek
Messages: 13975
Registered: November 2005

Ultimate Member

I already did.

Whith new ARGB Image with direct surface access, you will be able to plugin similar libraries without too much hassle.

AGG is definitely the most interesting candidate.

Mirek

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Xara Xtreme Engine [message #3614 is a reply to message #1002]

Wed, 07 June 2006 10:59

CyberEye
Messages: 4
Registered: June 2006
Location: Germany

Junior Member

Hello @ all!

This is my first posting here and I must say: Ultimate++ and TheIDE are very good! The concept is awesome! One little critic: The Ultimate++ Framework is this time less documented. But I know, that this task is work in progress. Wink

But now to the topic:
I have read, that there is a problem to find a good platformindependent Draw-Engine.

What do you think about "Xara Xtreme"?
http://www.xaraxtreme.org

It is Open-Source for Linux. But I think, you can adept the engine and use it for platformindependent implementation.

Or do you search an Engine, to draw the GUI itself? Such as GTK, GDI, ...?

friendly greetings

CyberEye

PS.: I'm from Germany, so do not critic my English much, please. Rolling Eyes