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Home » Community » Coffee corner » some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question
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Re: some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question [message #54515 is a reply to message #54513] |
Thu, 06 August 2020 13:25 |
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Xemuth
Messages: 387 Registered: August 2018 Location: France
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Senior Member |
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But what can explain some framework like Qt or WxWidgets is well more known, is QT team or else has made advertisement ?
Both Qt and WxWidgets have their own license, do it make them (from an enterprise point of view) more serious way of working than a BSD framework ?
(if yes then, what about Linux ? Apache ? etc ?)
from my knowledge, beginner developer don't do C++, but everytime I introduce some of them to U++ they get convinced by the power of the tool. the only problem is their lack of skills about C++ and all the complexicity of "pointers" "mutex" "stack/heap memory" . Damn you modern alternatives to C++ !
[Updated on: Thu, 06 August 2020 13:29] Report message to a moderator
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Re: some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question [message #54521 is a reply to message #54520] |
Thu, 06 August 2020 20:14 |
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Klugier
Messages: 1087 Registered: September 2012 Location: Poland, Kraków
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Senior Contributor |
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Hello Xemuth,
Quote:
Maybe it is a stupid question but in what's point of having widgets from host platform instead of emulated (which allow cross platform) could be attractive for developers ?
(knowing Upp widget can work on different operating system comfort me on the idea of one time I will be able to release my application not only on windows but also on Linux)
The reason for that is that you have better look and fell in compare to Upp. The tricky part about it is that it is still multiplatform. WxWidgets creates wrapper class for that, so in application code you call wrapper not use the native code. So, your application is potable across operating systems. FileZilla is good example of multi-platform app created with that technology. The same code base for Windows, Linux and macOS. However, I always find WxWidgets application heavy and slow. It runs slows in compare to native or Upp applications.
Also, please notice that QT uses the same approach as Upp. No native widgets (KDE is the exception ) all is draw and the styled depending on the platform.
Quote:
from my knowledge, beginner developer don't do C++, but everytime I introduce some of them to U++ they get convinced by the power of the tool. the only problem is their lack of skills about C++ and all the complexicity of "pointers" "mutex" "stack/heap memory" . Damn you modern alternatives to C++ !
The problem with C++ is that it is 40 years old technology. Within this time humanity advanced in the term of thinking about programming language. The good example of that is Rust programming language. It is similar to C++ in context of performance (no garbage collector), but better designed. In context of memory safety (crashes are common problems with application written in C/C++) and easy to use (header files are outdated). Also it posses package manager, which makes whole platform easy to expand. Please notice that right know Linux kernel is experimenting with that technology and will probably allow to write drivers with it.
Quote:
But what can explain some framework like Qt or WxWidgets is well more known, is QT team or else has made advertisement ?
For the larger compones (corporations) QT is better that WxWidget or Upp. The main reason for that is they have money to pay for professional license. But, it is not the case. The main reason for that is they offer stability. It is develop under QT company, so in compare to Upp which is mainly maintenance by single developer - Mirek. Please imagine what will happen with Upp when Mirek will stop working on that? In case of QT they can replace employees more easily. They also offer commercial support which is nice. If you are for example blocked by issue in the library you can force them to fix that issue. In case of Upp nobody can force Mirek to do anything
The features I like about QT:
- Styling via CSS (Non technical person can modify the look of the app like UX Designer - very important for bigger companies)
- QML - UI separated from the binary. You can modify layouts without recompiling application. Still important for non technical users for modifying the look of application.
- Support for mobile devices (no critical, but nice to have)
- UI can be tested - important in big projects that want to provide high quality for the users. Moreover, the risk is greater when more developers work on project
- Other IDE integration (Visual Studio, CMake, Conan packages etc).
Sincerely,
Klugier
U++ - one framework to rule them all.
[Updated on: Thu, 06 August 2020 20:30] Report message to a moderator
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Re: some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question [message #54523 is a reply to message #54515] |
Thu, 06 August 2020 21:50 |
Novo
Messages: 1378 Registered: December 2006
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Ultimate Contributor |
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Xemuth wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 07:25But what can explain some framework like Qt or WxWidgets is well more known, is QT team or else has made advertisement ?
They not just advertise. They advertise extremely aggressively. They attack everybody who can compete with them. I personally was attacked by one of the top QT guys for just saying that we are making a similar product in a different domain (they didn't have similar technology at that time, probably, still do not have it). I'm pretty sure QT is spending money to make U++ invisible.
Regards,
Novo
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Re: some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question [message #54524 is a reply to message #54521] |
Thu, 06 August 2020 23:59 |
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Xemuth
Messages: 387 Registered: August 2018 Location: France
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Senior Member |
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Hello Klugier, thanks for this explanation,
Klugier wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 20:14
Within this time humanity advanced in the term of thinking about programming language
Indeed but the goal of differents C++ release is not to follow the humain thinking about programming language ?
Klugier wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 20:14
Please notice that right know Linux kernel is experimenting with that technology and will probably allow to write drivers with it
Do it mean that C++ is condemned to extinguish itself?
Klugier wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 20:14
For the larger compones (corporations) QT is better that WxWidget or Upp. The main reason for that is they have money to pay for professional license. But, it is not the case. The main reason for that is they offer stability. It is develop under QT company, so in compare to Upp which is mainly maintenance by single developer - Mirek. Please imagine what will happen with Upp when Mirek will stop working on that? In case of QT they can replace employees more easily. They also offer commercial support which is nice. If you are for example blocked by issue in the library you can force them to fix that issue. In case of Upp nobody can force Mirek to do anything
Indeed from a company view the fact Qt is a company wich provide services to client make it a strong choice. However this BSD license + all the source code could allow a company in a long term view to have a solide framework wich allow them to compete (in terme of needed features ) with QT without any licenses ? (maybe the cost of learning the entire framework and improving it in their way is to expensive ?)
Klugier wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 20:14
Please imagine what will happen with Upp when Mirek will stop working on that?
Disaster ! The fact Upp is a BSD could allow some developper to take back is work to improve it ? Maybe it's Too good to be true. At Least the footprint of the framework will remain since the source is accessible
Maybe a way to make Upp more used would be to provide by differents way some trainings about all axis of Upp (indeed it already exist via all example) but something deeper ? maybe video about it or virtual classroom ? Maybe I'm a dreamer and the state of informatique in a company point of view is too stuck/ hard coded to start using new technology
[Updated on: Fri, 07 August 2020 00:05] Report message to a moderator
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Re: some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question [message #54527 is a reply to message #54526] |
Fri, 07 August 2020 09:05 |
pvictor
Messages: 68 Registered: December 2015
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Member |
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As an occasional U++ user, I think that it is a great cross platform RAD tool and only lacks two things:
- a good book (especially for beginners in C++).
There are many subtle places in advanced programs which are unclear and having a book, describing these technics would greatly help.
- a comprehensive help system.
As for now, there are many useful classes and functions in U++, that are not even mentioned in help and can be found only accidentally. For example: ImagePainter, BufferPainter, FileSelNative, PaintInfo, msecs(), usecs(), Random().
I understand that writing help is a boring work, but it could increase the popularity of U++.
Best regards,
Victor
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Re: some U++ stuff on reddit/cpp_question [message #54529 is a reply to message #54527] |
Fri, 07 August 2020 09:26 |
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mirek
Messages: 14164 Registered: November 2005
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Ultimate Member |
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pvictor wrote on Fri, 07 August 2020 09:05As an occasional U++ user, I think that it is a great cross platform RAD tool and only lacks two things:
- a good book (especially for beginners in C++).
There are many subtle places in advanced programs which are unclear and having a book, describing these technics would greatly help.
- a comprehensive help system.
As for now, there are many useful classes and functions in U++, that are not even mentioned in help and can be found only accidentally. For example: ImagePainter, BufferPainter, FileSelNative, PaintInfo, msecs(), usecs(), Random().
I understand that writing help is a boring work, but it could increase the popularity of U++.
Best regards,
Victor
I agree. But one thing to add is that all these things should be 'outward'. So far I am in endless cycle of improving U++, adding more docs, help etc, but problem is that all that happens in our repo and nobody know. I am sorry but somewhat I lack the energy to make things more public...
I still believe that the best chance is to carefully disseminate articles in places that (still) allow it, like CodeProject. If I would be able to write more than single article a year, things would probably be better
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