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Home » Developing U++ » Mac OS » Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea
Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #9571] Thu, 17 May 2007 17:35 Go to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
Messages: 12024
Registered: November 2005
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I have an idea how to speed-up the porting (MacOS X now, be it is general).

The most time consuming part of problem is to find out all the information about implementing required things on target platform, something that developer that knows the platform would find primitive. OTOH, target platform guru's are unlikely to know about U++ implementation details.

So my idea is to create "reference application" that will contain all the function for minimal (and perhaps later, advanced) target platform support.

Target platform guru will reimplement this application (using the most straighforward way) and submit the code, which will serve as great boost to development speed (sort of U++ oriented knowledge base).

Thoughts?

Mirek
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18173 is a reply to message #9571] Sun, 14 September 2008 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
captainc is currently offline  captainc
Messages: 278
Registered: December 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
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luzr wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 11:35

I have an idea how to speed-up the porting (MacOS X now, be it is general).

The most time consuming part of problem is to find out all the information about implementing required things on target platform, something that developer that knows the platform would find primitive. OTOH, target platform guru's are unlikely to know about U++ implementation details.

So my idea is to create "reference application" that will contain all the function for minimal (and perhaps later, advanced) target platform support.

Target platform guru will reimplement this application (using the most straighforward way) and submit the code, which will serve as great boost to development speed (sort of U++ oriented knowledge base).

Thoughts?

Mirek



I think this was a great idea. Was there any progress with it? What are we doing about Mac support? I think supporting Mac is necessary to get Mac developers to use and work on U++.

Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18175 is a reply to message #18173] Sun, 14 September 2008 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Registered: November 2005
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captainc wrote on Sun, 14 September 2008 09:08

luzr wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 11:35

I have an idea how to speed-up the porting (MacOS X now, be it is general).

The most time consuming part of problem is to find out all the information about implementing required things on target platform, something that developer that knows the platform would find primitive. OTOH, target platform guru's are unlikely to know about U++ implementation details.

So my idea is to create "reference application" that will contain all the function for minimal (and perhaps later, advanced) target platform support.

Target platform guru will reimplement this application (using the most straighforward way) and submit the code, which will serve as great boost to development speed (sort of U++ oriented knowledge base).

Thoughts?

Mirek



I think this was a great idea. Was there any progress with it? What are we doing about Mac support? I think supporting Mac is necessary to get Mac developers to use and work on U++.




Unfortunately, I am afraid, for the time being, Mac stalled. I think Carbon EOL was the final hit...

Mirek
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18194 is a reply to message #18175] Tue, 16 September 2008 05:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
captainc is currently offline  captainc
Messages: 278
Registered: December 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
Experienced Member
Maybe go for a mac mini to test development for mac...

From apple store: $599.00
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mi ni
From mac mall: $596.00
http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/macmini_intel/

or even a used one.
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18197 is a reply to message #18194] Tue, 16 September 2008 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Mac HW is the least problem here...

Mirek
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18198 is a reply to message #18197] Tue, 16 September 2008 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bytefield is currently offline  bytefield
Messages: 210
Registered: December 2007
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luzr wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 11:33

Mac HW is the least problem here...

Mirek

Then the lack of MacOS programmers? Seems no one is interested to port Upp to MacOSX... is that because of Objective-C or the upp core developers don't use Mac at all. I've never used a Mac and i don't know when i will use one, because i'm felling good using x86 platform with Linux and Windows. I know that MacOS is the second programs market after Windows(here in Europe, i don't know in USA) but i don't bother to make programs for it because MacOS have just a small amount of market.
So the question is, should we have interest in MacOS platform? Maybe others outside of Europe and better informed can give some hints.


cdabbd745f1234c2751ee1f932d1dd75
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18200 is a reply to message #18198] Tue, 16 September 2008 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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bytefield wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 04:48

luzr wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 11:33

Mac HW is the least problem here...

Mirek

Then the lack of MacOS programmers?



IMO, lack of Core U++ developers as well....

The problem is that this requires both deep MacOSX knowledge AND deep U++ knowledge...

Quote:


Seems no one is interested to port Upp to MacOSX... is that because of Objective-C or the upp core developers don't use Mac at all.



IMO, both...

Quote:


I know that MacOS is the second programs market after Windows(here in Europe, i don't know in USA)



In my country, there is IMO much more Linux related programming *jobs* than MacOS programming jobs. Basically, any ISP needs Linux programmers. Who needs OSX coders?

MacOSX is used by graphics, but they do not need any software developemnt...

AFAIK, in USA situation mich be much different, Apple has much deeper market penetration.

Quote:


So the question is, should we have interest in MacOS platform?


Definitely. But other things have priority now....

Mirek
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18201 is a reply to message #18198] Tue, 16 September 2008 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cbpporter is currently offline  cbpporter
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Registered: September 2007
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bytefield wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 11:48


Then the lack of MacOS programmers? Seems no one is interested to port Upp to MacOSX... is that because of Objective-C or the upp core developers don't use Mac at all. I've never used a Mac and i don't know when i will use one, because i'm felling good using x86 platform with Linux and Windows. I know that MacOS is the second programs market after Windows(here in Europe, i don't know in USA) but i don't bother to make programs for it because MacOS have just a small amount of market.
So the question is, should we have interest in MacOS platform? Maybe others outside of Europe and better informed can give some hints.

I think that it is about the lack of MacOS developers. Objective-C si not that hard, but still, you can't just read a little about it and expect to write anything meaningful. You need some experience, and I think that a lot of people would rather avoid having to learn a new and relatively useless (except for Mac) programing language.

And even if you know ObjectiveC, it will take some time before you get a basic window and message system running, and you also must be able to integrate it into CtrlCore. That's why it would be the best if someone who knows Cocoa and someone familiar with CtrlLib implementation work together. So basically one does a straightforward Cocoa minimal application, like you would find in a tutorial, and the other then tries to adapt if for CtrlLib.

Too bad that Carbon is outdated Sad.

And of course these people need Macs. Anybody successfully emulated a Mac?
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18203 is a reply to message #18200] Tue, 16 September 2008 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bytefield is currently offline  bytefield
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luzr wrote

In my country, there is IMO much more Linux related programming *jobs* than MacOS programming jobs. Basically, any ISP needs Linux programmers. Who needs OSX coders?

That's happen also in my country and I guess all around the world, IMO LAMP(Linux+Apache+MySQL+Php) is one of the best solutions for server side applications, because it's cheap and opened.

When i was talking about the MacOS as a second market after Windows i was thinking that Linux market side want mostly open-source programs and just the best oss get sales in Linux market(maybe not source or program sales but support sales). BTW, have someone from here made a commercial application for Linux and/or open-source/closed-source in the same time?


cdabbd745f1234c2751ee1f932d1dd75
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18207 is a reply to message #9571] Tue, 16 September 2008 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gprentice is currently offline  gprentice
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Maybe it's possible to do a version of upp that sits on top of factor and doesn't directly know anything about the underlying platform. Not volunteering though.

http://factorcode.org/

Graeme
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18208 is a reply to message #18200] Tue, 16 September 2008 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
captainc is currently offline  captainc
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Quote:


Then the lack of MacOS programmers?

IMO, lack of Core U++ developers as well....
The problem is that this requires both deep MacOSX knowledge AND deep U++ knowledge...

Things look like they are ramping up for U++. Any options for another Core developer?
Have you investigated cloning?! A second Mirek would help...!
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18209 is a reply to message #18200] Tue, 16 September 2008 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
guido is currently offline  guido
Messages: 169
Registered: April 2006
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I guess OS X market is end-user focused, while most programming is really done in vertical markets, in-house (Java) apps etc. or web-related.

Maybe applying for Google Summer of Code is worth a shot next year. No idea what chances there, though.
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18225 is a reply to message #18209] Thu, 18 September 2008 02:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
captainc is currently offline  captainc
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New product that I saw from a Digg article:
http://www.efixusa.net/product_info.php?products_id=28

Its a usb drive that allows you to install MAC OS on a pc
From their site:
Quote:

Run Unmodified Mac OS X on a PC:
Boost your creativity, your dreams and daily tasks in a fully new dimension with Mac OS X on PC. Start to experience what Mac OS X users always enjoyed, stability of Mac OS X system, unique security protection, no viruses, and the beauty of the OS all on your standard PC.

Note sure how it works yet...
Update: Looks like it is limited to the hardware it can run on.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 September 2008 02:24]

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Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #18238 is a reply to message #18225] Thu, 18 September 2008 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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captainc wrote on Wed, 17 September 2008 20:18

New product that I saw from a Digg article:
http://www.efixusa.net/product_info.php?products_id=28

Its a usb drive that allows you to install MAC OS on a pc

From their site:
Quote:

Run Unmodified Mac OS X on a PC:
Boost your creativity, your dreams and daily tasks in a fully new dimension with Mac OS X on PC. Start to experience what Mac OS X users always enjoyed, stability of Mac OS X system, unique security protection, no viruses, and the beauty of the OS all on your standard PC.

Note sure how it works yet...
Update: Looks like it is limited to the hardware it can run on.


Who cares about "unmodified" Smile

(It is definitely possible and not even that much hard to run OSX on generic PC hardware, even on AMD CPUs. Of course, it is not legal too....)

Mirek
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23618 is a reply to message #18238] Thu, 05 November 2009 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jeremy_c is currently offline  jeremy_c
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No more word on OS X support I guess? To me, that is the one thing holding me back going full force with U++. I would like to deploy on Windows, Linux and OS X. I am betting it's the case with many other developers as well. Here in the USA, OS X is here to stay and we really must think about deployment on it :-/

Jeremy

[Updated on: Thu, 05 November 2009 15:54]

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Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23620 is a reply to message #9571] Fri, 06 November 2009 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Reini is currently offline  Reini
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Hello OS X Fans,

I am looking forward in buying a Mac and learning to code for it. Ok I am no expert on Mac as Mirek is definitely right we should have for OS X porting. At the moment I am just lerning U++ and will contribute some stuff in the near future.

So I was also thinking to do some Mac Programming. But as I realized that the native language is there Objective-C. I was wondering how to port then something in U++ ?

But for my understanding of the OS X Architecture its a Unix based system so C++ should be definitely possible to use even if only with a binding from Objective-C to C++.

But question is if that is fast enough for OS X ?

With some help of you I would be very interesting in porting U++ to OS X and I am sure if someone does the first step others will follow Smile

Greetz Reini
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23624 is a reply to message #23620] Sat, 07 November 2009 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mirek is currently offline  mirek
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Reini wrote on Thu, 05 November 2009 19:11

Hello OS X Fans,

I am looking forward in buying a Mac and learning to code for it. Ok I am no expert on Mac as Mirek is definitely right we should have for OS X porting. At the moment I am just lerning U++ and will contribute some stuff in the near future.

So I was also thinking to do some Mac Programming. But as I realized that the native language is there Objective-C. I was wondering how to port then something in U++ ?

But for my understanding of the OS X Architecture its a Unix based system so C++ should be definitely possible to use even if only with a binding from Objective-C to C++.



AFAIK, you can use Objective-C++ as well. I guess it should be possible to encapsulete Cocoa API so that there is no "Objective" left outside the encapsulation.
Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23628 is a reply to message #23624] Sat, 07 November 2009 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
koldo is currently offline  koldo
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Hello all

I do not know about Mac programming, but this sound strange to me:
Quote:

So I was also thinking to do some Mac Programming. But as I realized that the native language is there Objective-C. I was wondering how to port then something in U++ ?


So just searching a little bit I have found that in Mac it is used Xcode Tools (http://developer.apple.com/tools/), previously named Apple DevTools, including Mac versions of gcc, gdb and make, here http://developer.apple.com/tools/gcc_overview.html

Best regards
Koldo

PD. Fixed gcc link thanks to Andrei Natanael


Best regards
IƱaki

[Updated on: Sat, 07 November 2009 22:15]

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Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23631 is a reply to message #23628] Sat, 07 November 2009 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andrei_natanael is currently offline  andrei_natanael
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koldo wrote on Sat, 07 November 2009 14:44

Hello all

I do not know about Mac programming, but this sound strange to me:
Quote:

So I was also thinking to do some Mac Programming. But as I realized that the native language is there Objective-C. I was wondering how to port then something in U++ ?


So just searching a little bit I have found that in Mac it is used Xcode Tools (http://developer.apple.com/tools/), previously named Apple DevTools, including Mac versions of gcc, gdb and make, here http://developer.apple.com/tools/gcc_overview.html

Best regards
Koldo

Hi Koldo, i'm not a Mac programmer but recently i've looked over programming topics for mac on internet (especially apple site). There was possible to write GUI in C/C++ for MacOS using Carbon library but Apple dropped it and new library Cocoa is only Objective-C. It may sound strange but Objective-C is really used to do programs for macs Smile

I know you can mix C/C++ with Objective-C/C++ and up to some point Objective-C is pure C, then the differences comes. We have to use Objective-C mixed with C/C++ to create an interface which could get used by upp CtrlCore. Btw, we may get some inspiration by looking at Qt code Rolling Eyes .

This year(2009-2010) i will be a graduated student, Bachelor of Mathematics-Computer Science (i hope i wrote this correct) and my thesis is about cross-platform GUI and i'm writing a Chameleon like library for Windows, Linux(KDE or Gnome or both) so if i'm not failing at doing that than i will try to port it to macos too after exams and if it's good enough maybe upp will adopt it Smile

P.S.: your last link should point to http://developer.apple.com/tools/gcc_overview.html (without dot at the end of the link)
icon6.gif  Re: Porting (Mac OS X) and "reference application" idea [message #23632 is a reply to message #9571] Sat, 07 November 2009 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Reini is currently offline  Reini
Messages: 28
Registered: April 2009
Location: Berlin
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Hi Guys,

Finally I did it today and baught a Mac Mini Cool
It was a special offer and I got also a printer and an Ipod Nano for free Smile

And I have to admit that the feeling to work on Mac is for daily office use a real pleasure.

Now I have to investigate the system a bit deeper.
Hot to find the console and such real basic stuff.

I have installed already Opera and found this Xcode stuff to be the only ? solution that is best at the moment. Codewarrior was for a long time the leading C++ Environment for Mac but is now baught by Freescale and so I think not sold any more. But anyway even Eclipse with CDT should do the job.

I will try to get involved in the development details and tell you further on the steps.

Mirek would you like to open a separate Forum for Mac or so ? Or are you developers also good reachable via IM ? This would be my preferable way of communicating since the small steps would flood then the forum too much Rolling Eyes

So far have a nice weekend Smile
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